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Ohio Counseling Conversations
Ohio Counseling Conversations
Let's Unpack That #4: The Disney Diagnostic Manual - Characters on the Couch
Ever wondered how Elsa might benefit from therapy? Or what psychological diagnosis would fit Simba after witnessing his father's death? Our latest episode dives into "The Disney Diagnostic Manual," where we playfully explore beloved animated characters through a therapeutic lens.
Animation provides the perfect canvas for examining complex emotions. Characters display exaggerated expressions that make feelings visible and identifiable—helping viewers of all ages recognize similar experiences within themselves. From Inside Out's personified emotions to Encanto's family dynamics, Disney and Pixar have created powerful metaphors for understanding mental health challenges that feel remarkably human.
We unpack how Disney storytelling has evolved from simple fairy tales to emotionally nuanced narratives that tackle grief, anxiety, trauma, and identity formation. Characters like Elsa demonstrate emotional suppression, Joy reveals the limitations of toxic positivity, and Tiana illustrates work-life imbalance. These fictional journeys provide valuable frameworks for processing our own emotional experiences in safe, accessible ways.
The episode features a playful game where we imagine therapy sessions with characters like The Tramp (attachment issues), Bruno (avoidant tendencies), and Nani (parentification). We explore how cinema therapy uses film as a therapeutic tool, helping clients gain insight and feel less alone. We even debate which Disney tropes deserve to be "unpacked" versus "put back"—from therapy animals to villain redemption arcs.
Whether you're a counselor seeking new metaphors for client work or simply a Disney fan curious about the psychology behind your favorite characters, this episode offers fresh perspective on stories that have shaped generations. Subscribe now and join our conversation about unpacking the big stuff, one Disney character at a time.
What do you think? Send us your questions or topics you'd like us to unpack!
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Created by the OCA's Media, Public Relations, and Membership (MPRM) Committee & its Podcast Subcommittee
·Hosted by Marisa Cargill & Victoria Frazier
·Pre-Production & Coordination by Marisa Cargill and Victoria Frazier
·Editing by Leah Wood & Marisa Cargill
·Original music selections by Elijah Satoru Wood
Welcome to let's Unpack that, a short-form segment from Ohio Counseling Conversations where we dig into the topics, tools and truths that shape our work as counselors. Whether it's a trending issue, a clinical insight or something we've all been thinking about, we're here to process it together. Welcome back to let's Unpack that. I am Marissa Cargill and I'm Victoria Frazier, and on today's episode we are going to be digging into the Disney Diagnostic Manual really kind of unpacking. What if your favorite Disney characters booked therapy appointments? And just as an aside, we want people to know these are playful diagnoses and are really for entertainment purposes only. We're not reflective of necessarily actual mental health diagnoses.
Speaker 1:Let's unpack that we believe mental health exists on a spectrum and that everyone experiences emotional challenges and growth at varying degrees, and that everyone experiences emotional challenges and growth at varying degrees. Our goal is just to normalize conversations about mental health while keeping space for humor, empathy and understanding. And when we talk about characters today, we might be talking about how we might want to work with them, without necessarily putting the label on them, but helping work with, maybe, their experiences. So we're going to be talking through a lot of different parts of how animation and things help, but we'll also be talking about characters. Tori, tell me, are you a Disney girly?
Speaker 2:I feel like I got grandfathered into being a Disney girly because my mom is a Disney girly, Like we were living at the Disney world. But I, I work so much with kids and so I feel like it's a work obligation to be up to date on the Disney movies and so I do like them. But I guess I'm not like, I'm not an organic Disney girl. I feel like I'm. I'm like situationally Disney. Are you like a Disney girl? Oh, my goodness, I think so. Yeah, I feel like I'm. I'm like situationally.
Speaker 1:Disney, are you like a Disney girl? Oh my goodness, I think so. Yeah, I feel like and I don't know if this is a, I think it's a pretty I hate the word normal, but common experience for young children to have a movie that they watch like almost daily, and for me that was the Little Mermaid, because I mean I saw it in the movie theater. I was, you know, late 80s, early 90s. That was an era for Disney, and so there were so many good things happening.
Speaker 1:I can remember seeing many a Disney movie in the theater and I mean I still do like I'm not a moviegoer. I know you're an avid moviegoer and I make time for the Disney's right. Like I think when I saw the first inside out, I hadn't been to a theater in like years, and then a couple of summers ago I don't know, was that last summer the second one I I went to see. I'm like mom, gotta go, gotta go, must go, and it had been maybe like two years since I had been to the theater when I saw that one. It's yeah, I need to work on that, especially for someone who has a degree in media. I feel like I'm just a bad movie goer, but Disney, I will make space for that's. That's something that, yes, I am a Disney girl. To answer your question.
Speaker 2:I feel like if I'm not in the theater, like every other week, I'm itching, like I feel like I've got to get there.
Speaker 1:I I could do some work there. I think I would enjoy it. It's just something I haven't maybe intentionally spent some some time with. But when we think about disney I guess I'm wondering how do you feel about the characters and and plot connections to mental health and in wellness? How do you feel like this fits?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think that it's really interesting kind of how disney changed after pixar. So, like before they like merged or they acquired Pixar I'm not sure what the preferred language is, but they were doing so many like fairy tales and then, after Pixar came on the scene with, like Toy Story, all of the movies started getting so much more like emotionally deep and exploring like different themes, and so I mean I do think there's still like value in the fairy tales, especially because, like originally, fairy tales were created to teach children lessons, right. But I do think it's interesting to kind of see how it's changed since Pixar started bringing a new kind of agenda to the studio yeah, and I think I what I really like, especially about studio, yeah, and I think I what I really like, especially about the evolution.
Speaker 1:but in general, I think and maybe this helps set the stage for what we'll be discussing is that characters in film and TV and literature are often like relatable. Right, we want the characters to be relatable because that helps people connect to like maybe their own challenges or struggles in life, and so we see these. I think, especially in animated film, like with Disney and Pixar, that there's maybe some of that on like, yes, relatable level, but like on a more exaggerated way would you say.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I think, especially with animation, there's so much opportunity to create situations or even just like down to the character expressions or how they're moving. There's so much more exaggerated than real life. And I mean I know that CGI now can kind of bridge that gap, but like I don't know, I think about like like Inside Out is a good example of like building those sets would be insane. And so it's like animation gives you opportunities to lots of creative and exaggerated things. And I also think, since it's oriented for children, I mean people of all ages can enjoy them, but it lets you be a little more heavy handed with things and like really dig into themes and maybe be a little more overt than like something more oriented for adults would be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I I don't know if I've confessed this on past episodes of any of our you know formats on Ohio Council and Conversations, but I was in show choir in high school and I think of almost just like how we had to be big as a performer, right Like you know very grand gestures, and like even like your facials had to be more expressive because you're on stage and far away from people. And I feel like that's similar maybe in some of these films where it's like very exaggerated and very big so that it's visible, it's noticeable, like it's hard to miss it. Right Like you can see that expression or that, that emotion very easily because it's over the top a little and that exaggeration does help move the plot, like it helps us sell the story and and maybe send the messages you know, like the you know that can also it can feel real for people, even if it's not as exaggerated, right Like that real life is that way too sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the like the reality piece of it even if it's not like I don't know there's not little guys running around in my head as far as I know and like the greater evidence-based practice knows, but it's's, it relates so heavily to mental health themes and like real things that people are going through, like if we're gonna stay on the inside out train, like like fear and anxiety from the second one is such that I saw that and I don't know if I've disclosed this, but I have an anxiety diagnosis and so so when I was watching that, like yes, I'm a person with a full range of emotions, but I was like, oh, that's me, like, oh, they got me, I mean, I saw that movie and I recommended it to clients who were, you know, in the midst of their own struggle to really understand, like how their own anxiety functioned right, like this is really helpful display of what your brain has going on and what that anxiety is trying to do for you.
Speaker 2:I used the second one to talk to a lot of my littles about the difference between what is fear and what is anxiety and how to tell the difference, which is a hard skill even for like big, grown up brains that have a fused prefrontal cortex. One of the things I love most about the way that I interface with my clients is getting to talk about media. It's like a really strange day for me if I don't talk about movies or music or some kind of media with my clients and, even if it's not to like, teach them something like I feel like Inside.
Speaker 2:Out is a very good teaching piece of media where it's helping build insight or giving you metaphors to use for complicated things that are going on in the brain. I feel like it can even just be a nice way to connect about things clients are going through, even if you're not getting into the plot and what the characters are going through. I, if you're not getting into the plot and what the characters are going through I have a client who will come in and I can kind of see they have a very physical presentation of their depression and they'll come in kind of schlumped and sad and I'll be like, oh, an Eeyore day and they'll be like, yeah, I feel like an Eeyore today, and so even having that touchstone is really nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, it's part of like, what makes it relatable it. Even though these examples might be super exaggerated, it's really mirroring things that we experience in everyday ways and it normalizes it like right and I think you know you're especially like right is one of those things that I've seen it online but that like, even with that, like his friends still included him.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:He doesn't have to be by himself surface and help people understand it by having the externalized, like contextualization, personifying different emotions, and like these Disney Pixar films, really create some opportunities for conversations that maybe would feel too heavy or stigmatized or intimidating for some people. It's like an access point that maybe we wouldn't have otherwise. And I think to your point of like working with littles for adults too right, like I only work with adults and I was saying, yeah, you got to see inside out too to understand anxiety better. Like it's just going to give you that much more perspective, and so I think that that's such a an important piece for sure.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I think it can also be a nice entry point if, like, sometimes when my clients come in and they don't have anything to talk about, I don't want to just like go in with something, I've been kind of been excited to start kind of unpacking with them and so a lot my clients mostly all know that I love movies and a lot of times if we're just kind of chit chatting they'll be like what are you watching lately? And like the, I have a client who has some really deep grief work that we've been trying to get into and it's actually one of my grownup clients and I said, well, I was, it's funny enough.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about you the other day because I was watching Up and I just the way that Carl is like that's the, that for those uneducated, that is the old man from not to be ageist, but he is elderly, but he in the beginning of the movie he you see kind of vignettes of him and his life with his, his wife, and then she passed away kind of vignettes of him and his life with his, his wife, and then she passed away and we were talking spoiler sorry for the first 10 minutes of uh uh spoilers, retroactively, a spoiler alert but we we were talking about how he feels isolated sometimes and things like that, and I was like I was thinking about you while I was watching up and that opened up a door for him and he was like I can't watch that movie anymore.
Speaker 1:I just love that movie.
Speaker 2:And that was a really nice entry point, as opposed to me being like let's talk about the loss you're experiencing in your life.
Speaker 1:That's just too much. Yeah, it's. It's certainly like such a great way to connect with people, and I think it's relationship building when we talk about the things that we're doing in our life. Like, certainly there are people who don't spend a lot of time consuming media. However, it seems like the majority of, like the people in the US are consuming some type of media, and these characters are part of that equation.
Speaker 2:I also think if they're not like I have a client who sometimes I can get a little lost because they don't really engage in any media. They watch sports and so, but even then they watched movies when they were little Right, and so the to bring it back to Disney, like that's a touchstone that's pretty unanimous for people. Unanimous for people, and so it can also be interesting to think about how growing up with those stories was impactful, as opposed to maybe hearing them for the first time as an adult.
Speaker 1:There's actually research that shows media psychology research that says people often relate more deeply to fictional characters than public figures, and so it makes these characters powerful teaching tools for discussing emotional, mental health and that can be in our, you know, one-on-one client spaces, that can be in groups, that can be in classrooms.
Speaker 1:That becomes a really big tool to help bridge that gap that you're talking about.
Speaker 1:And one thing that I think a lot of counselors have probably heard of before is bibliotherapy, right, like where maybe books or literature, whether they're fiction, nonfiction are assigned to clients to sort of help them understand and bridge gaps in a way that feels, you know, meaningful. But cinema therapy is also something that has been identified as another tool. So it's really an offshoot of that in following in those footsteps where it's not just necessarily about watching the movie but having some conversations around those movies with your therapist or sometimes like with a group but with with a counselor, and really understanding how they experienced that film, but also maybe asking questions about specific parts of that, how they related to the character, if it was able to give them something that they felt connected to, they felt less alone because, like, oh, that's how that has happened for someone else and what that can bring these cinema therapy experiences is insight catharsis, that feeling of maybe it is more of a universal thing, or even if it's not universal, I'm not the only one.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. I think the catharsis is such an important part because sometimes mental we love catharsis Mental health can be like when we're having difficulties it can be so isolating.
Speaker 2:And maybe we're from a family or a culture where that's not something that we talk about with each other, right, and so having a representation of something you're going through on screen, especially as, like, nobody's perfect but like they've moved towards more diversity in their storytelling, I think that is so important being able to see them have a confrontational conversation with a family member or try something and fail and get back up again.
Speaker 2:I think one of the characters I talk a lot about which feels kind of niche because, again, spoiler alert for Big Hero 6, which is the one with the big fluffy robot I talk about the older brother a lot, tadashi.
Speaker 2:He is a very parental figure for his younger brother, as older siblings often are in to see Pixar movies and he actually dies in an explosion, being heroic and we see the little brother feel obligated to kind of fill those shoes and he makes connections with the brother's friends and they like become a team of superheroes. It's a very cute movie but he feels a lot of pressure before him because he is such a smart kid and we see how like that can be a strength and also kind of harmful. And the older brother built in a program in the robot he made that the little brother keeps. The robot's name is Baymax, and Baymax is meant to be cuddly and warm and supportive, but he's also a medical robot, so he's there to assess for injury, and so you see how we talk about it a lot of different ways Like it's important to be soft and gentle, but also like it's important to use your resources and use the things that people have left for you, and so, yeah, not to get too into.
Speaker 2:Tadashi's journey from Big Hero 6, but that one all the kids have seen it, but it's not one that comes to mind immediately when we think about, like, oh, what are therapy movies?
Speaker 1:Right, right, well, and that's where it's like, sometimes taking a peek at a character just helps us say what does that look like for you? I've asked clients to think about movies where they identify with a character, not specifically Disney, but that, hey, what is it about that character that you relate to? Maybe we can unpack that. I'm not like super heavy, only IFS type things, but I think sometimes when we think about the parts that we relate to with that, I've done some of my own exercises and trainings with that and felt like I unpacked some things by myself. How do I connect to that person? And in both positive and negative or more neutral ways, and it's like surprising, it's eye-opening where you're like oh, that might be something that I'm I don't know hard on myself about, for example. But yeah, looking at characters is important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you have a character that comes to mind that if they came into your office, you would have something you'd really want to help them explore or work on?
Speaker 1:Okay, I wanted to ask you that question, but I wanted to like give you characters that maybe like would be a surprise and you tell me how you'd work with them.
Speaker 2:Okay, I love that.
Speaker 1:Is this a fair game to play? I think it's a fair. I play'd work with them Is that. Is this a fair game to play?
Speaker 2:I think it's a fair. I play this game with myself. Yeah, let's set the stage.
Speaker 1:So like maybe we use some that we both can like identify some like I don't know if issues is the language I want to use, but some like challenges or experiences that they're having. So, like Elsa from Frozen she's she's struggling because there's a lot of suppression because of of when she does experience emotions, it feels very big, so the conceal don't feel is really important, but that's that's harming her as well. And so I think, like trying to support her in finding healthy ways for expression as well as like safety with people in expressing, like you know, safety in the counseling space. But like identifying people that she feels safe expressing to oh yeah, might be a useful feel safe. Expressing to you, oh yeah, might be a useful approach. But what are some that you feel?
Speaker 2:I think just to keep it on also for a second, I also think that, like some, social skills training would probably be important. Sure, she's being expected to run a country, but she's been in a room her whole life with no one else, Isolated for so long. Well, the castle like like I guess maybe I exaggerated.
Speaker 1:She's seen other people, but limited yeah, limited, but but, yeah, very limited.
Speaker 1:I to come back to inside out, I I think Joy's evolution from the first to the second was incredible and so maybe I don't need to see her now as much.
Speaker 1:But I think the first movie, in a way that was intentional I think I mean I didn't talk to the filmmakers was really like toxic positivity, like good vibes, only no space for anything else.
Speaker 1:And I think with her evolution we saw how that gets to be pretty heavy and how that's really hard to try and stay that way and that she was able to make space for how difficult it is to stay positive and be joyful all the time. I thought that that was I mean, I'm getting goosebumps talking about it, like I'm just like a sentimental but I thought that that was one of the most beautiful parts of that movie for me and maybe because that's something I identify with, I may need to unpack that individually, but I just thought it was incredible. And so I think continuing that path with her of like emotional integration and I know like these emotions were only one, one part of Riley, but I think when we look at them as one character like that, we're still trying to help them understand like that being exclusively one thing is maybe not healthy yeah, right, not. Maybe is is not healthy objectively, yeah, yeah, so what else.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is kind of a niche bit, but I would love to get a group session going with all of the people who were on the spaceship in WALL-E, who were in their little chairs and like floating around. I feel like that, that movie, I love that movie and I feel like I got that movie. I love that movie and I feel like I got to watch it so much in high school because science teachers would show it on like like before Christmas break. So I just I have like a very soft spot in my heart for WALL-E. But they're like there's this beautiful moment where, like the screens flicker and you see two of the people who are on that spaceship like look at a human being not through a screen for the first time, and it's so beautiful and like they, they work together and they like save all these babies that are on the spaceship. I think it's been a minute.
Speaker 2:I've not been in high school for a while but I think having a like a group therapy for all the people who are on that ship, because they're going to like repopulate the earth at the end Spoiler alert for the ending of WALL-E and like that's a whole new like living environment for them, and also they haven't been interacting with each other or like eating solid food. They've only been having those little like milkshake things. I would love to get them together and be like let's learn how to interact with each other, and also, like I'm sure their motivation is quite low and you know, there's like a lot of different skills, and so I always think about them and how, like. I don't think Wally, too, is in the works, but I would be very interested in like trying to figure out how that's going to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, I think that there are so many good characters that are representative of of very human experiences, and so we could probably spend time going through a million more and we will cover a couple more, but maybe we missed one of your favorite characters. So, you know, certainly feel free to like, share that with us. We can always come back to. You know, part two of the Disney Di manual. I know one that for me, maybe as an elder millennial, that was very foundational, I guess might be the right word. I don't know, maybe foundational is not the right word, but pretty epic, in not the best way, is Simba, especially the part where Mufasa dies spoiler alert and that, like what happens after with the grief and like some of the the layered family, like dynamics with Scar especially.
Speaker 1:You know how Simba, as such a young character, learns how to cope is by avoiding, by running away, and that he feels a lot of guilt and shame around it, and so those are things that, like I, you know, I would say it's probably my favorite animal Disney movie I classify them differently, right, and that's one of my favorite animal movies, but that there is like sort of that resilience building to after he's grown a little and you know spent his time away and then you know talk to Rafiki and really kind of changed his perspective on things, right, and so I think it's it's sort of continuing that like in helping him believe in himself and maybe process the guilt and the shame and the grief that.
Speaker 1:That in helping him believe in himself and maybe process the guilt and the shame and the grief that that he experienced. But that clip right Like just pulls a lot of emotion for me as an elder millennial. But I have a few people I want to throw at you like quick fire, just some things that maybe you feel like what would you do? And this one I'm as I'm like thinking about it as an elder millennial, I'm like I hope she's seen this one. So if not, I will, like you know, phone a friend and all I'll give some insights. But I number one, the tramp from lady and the tramp okay, incredible pull.
Speaker 2:Of course I'm familiar. Oh my gosh, what would I do with tramp? I feel like he has some really unhelpful core beliefs about, like his function in the world and like what he brings to relationships, yeah, and so I feel like we could do a lot of work with like okay, where are these beliefs coming from? Are they coming from experiences? Are they coming from, like, how the world interacts with dogs that don't have like a more defined breed, like is there some stigma that's happening? So I feel like I feel like tramp could use some like feminist interventions and maybe some cbt, maybe some exploration of like attachment issues.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, he has layers, he has layers.
Speaker 1:I like that's such a throwback, but I was really like, hmm, I would like to, and I would like to sit with him and learn more, you know, okay, what about in this? I almost just set it up to like saying what about Bruno from Encanto?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, that whole family needs some help and someone to sit with them. Bruno, oh my gosh, I feel like he has a lot of avoidant tendencies, obviously Like he locked himself away. He was made the scapegoat right, like there's lots of family dynamics, like the black sheep of the family.
Speaker 1:we don't talk about Bruno and I thought I wonder, like, how Bruno has internalized that. I feel like, yeah, while we get to learn about him in the film, like like I still want to know more and I want to help him feel like empowered to like embrace himself more and, you know, if possible, find healthy ways to sort of embrace the family, if desired.
Speaker 2:I think it'd also be tough because with a lot of my clients I talk about catastrophizing and fortune telling and he has a very unique thing where it's not guaranteed the things he sees are going to happen. So maybe that's where it's like the power of perhaps kind of thing. But I think that's a special challenge for him.
Speaker 1:Okay, last one, tiana, from the Princess and the Frog.
Speaker 2:That's my best friend, miss Tiana herself. I feel like I we need to expand her identity outside of work and like it's been that way for so long, and also like she loves the restaurant. I'm not saying she can't have, she needs to have the restaurant.
Speaker 2:She should have a passion, have a passion right, but like that was her dad's you know what I mean. Like that's a dream she picked up from her dad and so maybe she has like like foreclosed a little bit on her identity exploration. I think we see her grow through the course of the movie and like realize there's things outside of like working and getting this restaurant, but also just like I feel like she needs more cliff boundaries, I feel like she needs more, a little more honest communication with her friends or like being more open to her friends. Because, like, at first glance lottie is like selfish and you know like not as interested in other people. But when you watch that movie, lottie is a really good friend and it's like ready to show up for her. But Tiana doesn't give her a lot of opportunities for that and so I feel like, yeah, that's, I love her.
Speaker 1:I find that incredibly relatable to a lot of clients' experiences, because so many people struggle asking for help, right, even though they might show up to sessions and stuff like that, and they, they, they are seeking support in ways that they feel like safe doing. So they don't feel as comfortable asking people who would be willing to support them to support them, and so it's an interesting but really relatable part of of things. In interest of time, do you, you know you want to throw any my way, or do we want to move to some of?
Speaker 2:I think I have one that we haven't talked about, that I just feel very passionately about, and it's nani from lilo and stitch okay, I haven't seen that no what okay, I think I was afraid it looked too emotional and I was like I can, I can't, I just can't.
Speaker 1:It is, it is emotional.
Speaker 2:She's parentified long and short of it. I mean by the circumstances their parents pass away. She's raising Lilo but like she's also still pretty young and there's a lot of like the social workers involved and like they're navigating that process together as a family. And I've heard there's changes to the live action. I haven't seen it. Maybe I should get on that. But in the animated version you see how the social worker whose name is Cobra Bubbles he's an icon and a diva is like he wants to work with Nani and make sure she has adequate support from their family and like friends on the island and the and Jamba and Pleakley. You've got to get into Lilo and Stitch.
Speaker 2:But anyways she's parentified, but I feel like that's the like Disney elder sibling, because none of them have parents, especially the old ones.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's part of the evolution. I'm going to share a couple of quick fun facts just so that people kind of have a better understanding of maybe some of the research that like is connected to this. In 2021, there's an APA article that talked about how animated films can help children talk about their complex emotions in safe, accessible ways. So sort of speaks to that earlier research that we discussed about like bonding more with fictional characters over like public figures or celebrities, which makes Disney, pixar, as well as other films, really great opportunities for mental health education. So much so Pixar's Inside Out is actually cited in actual social emotional learning like tools now and programs is a classroom tool.
Speaker 1:And lastly, like I think this speaks more to some of that evolution that we were just touching on beyond like parents, is that Disney princess roles specifically, have shifted from like more passive, being rescued by the prince roles, to more complex characters with family dynamics, identity struggle issues, grief, anxiety, etc. And so I think that that just is really part of how, like what you mentioned at the start of the episode, things are becoming more emotionally intelligent and you know, I think it's really cool that we did do some I guess game is the best way to put it, but we did some engagement with you as the listeners, on our social media account at Ohio Counseling on Instagram. Ohio Counseling Association on Facebook and LinkedIn, and just wanted to share some of these playful diagnoses that our listeners had engaged with us and shared. So Sleeping Beauty has chronic fatigue syndrome. We, you know, accurate right bell with the bookworm brain rot as a diagnosis. You know I, I like it.
Speaker 2:I think she, she finds joy in that brain rotting through her books, right through her reading I will say it's probably doing better things for her attention span than our version of brain rot. Sure is yes.
Speaker 1:This one I had a giggle with King Triton meets criteria for GDD grumpy dad disorder with a Z code for TMTD. This part made me laugh. Too many teen daughters.
Speaker 2:I have some parents who are meeting criteria for that as well.
Speaker 1:Someone also said Jasmine meets the criteria for MCD magic carpet disorder and I was like, is this magical thinking? Like I was like we could go so many different directions. And then, an honorable mention, it wasn't Disney, it was Donkey from Shrek, with maybe some histrionic stuff going on as well.
Speaker 2:I think I could do a five-hour lecture on the characters from Shrek and their various happenings.
Speaker 1:Maybe we need another episode. I don't know Shrek-centric, just Shrek Sure. I love that. I don't know Shrek-centric, just Shrek Sure. I love that. I'm very open to that. So we have one final game before we sort of wrap it up, and we want you to be thinking about these things too. As we're thinking, we hope that you're in your car, in your home, having similar reflections, unpacking this with us.
Speaker 2:Okay. So we're going to play we played it last time, which we really loved which is unpack it or put it back and we're just going to go through a couple of things that are common in Disney movies and we're going to say if we want to keep them or if maybe it's time to rethink them, Unpack or put it back. So the first one is therapy animals in films. And we're talking like Pascal Entangled, the Little Chameleon. How do we feel? Pip and Enchanted. Yes, Pip is such an icon. I love Pip. I feel like I'm unpacking all day long. I need those little guys.
Speaker 1:Unpack yes, well, I need them in real life and in Disney. So, yes, unpack all day, every day.
Speaker 2:Agreed A hundred percent. The next one is songs as emotional processing which I feel like Elsa has been kind of our spotlight icon of the episode but like let it go. Or I think about Moana. How reflection how far I'll go, moana, we're going places all day, every day, also in real life.
Speaker 1:I I think music as catharsis is incredible, so I like it for emotional processing, for our characters and for us as counselors and our clients a million percent agree, all right.
Speaker 2:The next one is villain redemption arcs. What do we feel? Unpack, okay, you know I have strong feelings. I think sometimes unpack, sometimes put it back, sometimes people are doing unforgivable things, sure yeah, and they need to fall into lava. Like sorry, the characters Frollo from the hunchback of nerdom, get him in the lava, I'm done, I'm over it and he does go in the lava. I will say I'll say the newer characters have greater emotional depth and I'm okay with them being redeemed. But I think sometimes hard times are important.
Speaker 1:We would understand their behaviors or patterns better if we had more context, right, and so I love to see redemption and like it. It's conflicting, right, but I think that that's like very human too, where we can see people who have done harm but maybe have compassion for them in some ways. Does that mean we don't have boundaries and that we accept all bad behaviors? Absolutely not, right, this is nuanced, but I think it's helpful to to see that in in film, to maybe have, and for those people who feel like they're the villain, that they get to see a redemption arc that they like they are worthy of redemption. Yeah, that I, I like it for that reason. That does not mean we accept bad behavior or, you know, harmful like stuff from them always, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:People can change. I think that's the whole you know, that's our whole thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course we believe that Okay.
Speaker 2:We have a couple more Comic relief sidekicks as coping mechanisms. Uh, I mean sure humor's good Un yeah, I think there is a limit to it, as with all things but yeah right right yeah, sometimes.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's an avoidance thing too, where, like the humor might be like, okay, well, that's unhelpful.
Speaker 2:But yes, on the whole, more unpack than put it back I don't think it's going to be a surprise the last one for either of us, because I think it's the point of our whole episode but magical realism as a metaphor for trauma.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, mostly we unpack because that's part of like why this is relatable.
Speaker 2:No, yes, a million percent unpack, I think you know, as long as we can bring it back to ourselves and like reality, yes, a million percent unpack all day long.
Speaker 1:I love a metaphor I speak exclusively in metaphors, exaggerated examples sometimes might might feel like, oh, this isn't like reflective of my experience or it's you know, it's too simplified in some ways too, because we don't always we know that, like Cinderella's mother died when she was young, but we don't really know the details behind it and how she's experienced that, aside from how she experienced her stepmother and step sisters right, like we don't really know the grief parts, or like if it was something you know, I think losing a parent at a young age is arguably traumatic, but like we don't know the details and so it can be relatable, but like maybe passive and so maybe it's not always there, but maybe that gives us more ideas for film, I guess yeah, the box is open, but we haven't taken everything out of it exactly that.
Speaker 1:I think it's important. You know, again, this is meant for entertainment and to be playful and to sort of just get our brains thinking about things that are fun and maybe aligned with our roles as counselors, but also to remind ourselves we can learn a lot about ourselves and our clients through the characters that we love and that even sometimes fairy tales need a little unpacking right.
Speaker 2:And I think that wraps up this episode of let's Unpack that. Make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an update, and if you have questions, feedback or a topic you'd like us to unpack, be sure to drop us a line. You can send us a text from the link in our show notes or connect with our socials.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us for let's Unpack that brought to you by Ohio Counseling Conversations and the Ohio Counseling Association. If it sparked something for you, share it with a colleague or drop us a line. We'd love to keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening and until next time we encourage you to keep unpacking the big stuff, one conversation at a time. Thank you, Thank you.