Ohio Counseling Conversations
Ohio Counseling Conversations
Conversation 36 - Who Are We As Counselors & How Do We Prove It
What if cultural responsiveness wasn’t a training you attend, but a posture you carry into every session? We welcome Carmella Hill, current president of the Ohio Counseling Association, to unpack how engagement, competence, and identity come together to strengthen counselors and the communities we serve.
Carmella traces her path through OCA leadership and shows why unity across divisions, regions, and specialties is essential right now. We dig into what cultural humility looks like moment to moment—reading nonverbal cues, honoring family norms, and checking in about community events that weigh on clients. She pushes us to articulate counselor identity with clarity: we use theory, ask intentional questions, apply evidence-based interventions, and measure outcomes that demonstrate change. We also tackle the tools shaping our future, including responsible, ethical uses of AI to support preparation and psychoeducation without losing the human core of the work.
Mentorship and supervision emerge as the backbone of growth. Carmella shares formative stories of leaders who opened doors, modeled humility, and told the truth with care—habits that shape how we mentor the next generation. We talk practical wellness for busy caseloads, from one-minute breathing resets to journaling on the go, faith and community grounding, and peer consultation that turns isolation into momentum. On the systems side, we name the tough conversations: reimbursement, session limits, and legislative pressure, alongside concrete ways OCA creates connection through conferences, workshops, coaching, and committees.
If you’ve been feeling stretched thin or uncertain about how to describe the value of your work, this conversation offers language, tools, and a rallying cry. As Carmella puts it, together we stand and together we advance. Hit play, and then tell us: what practice shift will you try this week? Subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review so more Ohio counselors can find and fuel their fire.
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If you’re a counselor in Ohio and would like to get involved as part of production or as a guest, or know someone who might be interested, please email us at ohiocounselingconversations@gmail.com!
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Created by the OCA's Media, Public Relations, and Membership (MPRM) Committee & its Podcast Subcommittee
·Hosted by Victoria Frazier
·Pre-Production & Coordination by Marisa Cargill and Victoria Frazier
·Editing by Leah Wood & Marisa Cargill
·Original music selections by Elijah Satoru Wood
Welcome back to Ohio Counseling Conversations. Today we're honored to be joined by Carmela Hill, a licensed professional clinical counselor with supervising credentials and the current president of the Ohio Counseling Association. Carmela serves as the director of counseling services at a private university in Northeast Ohio and brings over 20 years of experience in the mental health field, working with individuals across the lifespan in a wide range of settings, from community mental health agencies to private practice. In addition to her leadership roles, Carmela is a passionate educator and advocate through her counseling and training business, empowered to help services. She provides workshops and seminars on cultural diversity, leadership, and professional development, helping teams and organizations create more inclusive and effective environments. She also teaches as an adjunct faculty member at two universities in Northeast Ohio, guiding the next generation of counselors in both practice and identity. In this episode, we'll talk with Carmela about cultural diversity, supervision, and leadership, and dive into the importance of professional and counselor identity, what it means, why it matters, and how we as counselors can better articulate who we are and what we do. So sit back, relax, and get ready for an insightful conversation with one of Ohio's leading voices in counseling, Carmela Hill. We are so excited today to welcome Carmela Hill, current president of the Ohio Counseling Association. Carmela, you have such a wealth of knowledge and a clear passion for counseling. What inspired you to pursue leadership in OCA and how does stepping into the role of president align with your personal and professional journey?
SPEAKER_00:Well, first, thank you for providing this opportunity to share. I really appreciate that. And, you know, I've been connected with OCA since approximately 2005, roughly. I've had the opportunity to begin my leadership in counseling as the OCA secretary, actually. And it was under Dr. Cynthia Osborne, who appointed me to that position under her presidency in 2005. And it was, you know, then I began to develop my love for leadership and service within the counseling profession. And as they say, the rest is history in a lot of ways. But, you know, further on with my leadership within OCA, some of the other things that I had the opportunity to do was be involved in OA Cervic. I was also involved in OAMCD as well as EOCA. And so all of these things I believe really prepare me to be president because many of those positions in those organ those divisions, I was actually a president in those divisions, in addition to other positions as well. So I believe these really help shape and form and kind of um bring me to the point where I am in OCA. But then also leadership opportunities and things of that nature outside of the counselor profession as well, together has brought me to this point of being able to be the president of the OCA.
SPEAKER_01:It's wonderful. It sounds like this has been a long journey and one that we're so excited to join you on. Yes. You've identified culture engagement, competence, wellness, and empowerment as key focus areas for your presidency. What do these priorities mean to you personally? And why do you believe they're timely for Ohio counselors?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, culture engagement is so important. You know, we're all unique in our diverse backgrounds and our experiences. We're unique in how we provide and carry out various services and you know, the different experiences we have, it really empowers us. When we're able to connect with one another, we're able to learn about those diverse experiences and it empowers us and enlighten us, and it really helps to understand who people are and it brings us together despite our differences. And so for me, connecting across Ohio is important, particularly because during this time in society we know things are going on, but that continued engagement, it helps to build togetherness. It's really paramount, it's vital that we maintain that unity, that connection amongst each other. Uh, so that's one piece that's very important. The I the thought and focus areas of competence, wellness, and empowerment. These are key principles actually of OCA's overall mission and vision. And so if I could state some of the key OCA statement, basically is that OCA is motivated by our dedication to wellness and education. We seek to promote, to connect, and encourage all of our members through leadership, networking, mentoring, advocacy, and professional development. So OCA, we are committed to building better lives in our workplaces and communities together across Ohio. So these focus areas of engagement, or in essence, connection, competence, wellness, and empowerment are just really being highlighted during my presidency to remind us of our focus, to remind us of our vision. So these are very vital that I believe are important for us to pay attention to.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that. I think culture diversity and engagement is something that we think about a lot on the podcast and also just kind of in my own personal practice. And so it's been nice that we've been able to kind of bring those to the forefront a little more because they are so timely in the state.
SPEAKER_00:They are, they really are.
SPEAKER_01:How do you see OCA's role in strengthening cultural engagement and collaboration across Ohio's communities? Because we are a very diverse state.
SPEAKER_00:Right. We are, and that's the wonderful thing about us because we're so diverse across the state, different cities, you know, different counties, things of that nature, and different populations and cultures within those cities and those counties. And so I enjoy, in general, learning about cultures and learning about groups, regardless of the setting. And so I I try my best to teach and to train that extensively on the topic of cultural diversity. So in our current challenges, external to the counseling profession, is important for us more than ever, I would say, more than ever, to promote unity, to continue to engage culturally, support those that are impacted by the various changes that we're experiencing to our profession. And so the clients we serve, they're affected by these changes. And as counselors, we can advocate for them in ways that they may not be able to. And so understanding their cultural challenges will help us to, if you will, foster that hope. I love the word hope. It really foster that hope in them and help us to continue to strengthen that counselor-client relationship. So it's just very important there. And I believe within OCA, you know, we think about connecting and collaborating, like amongst our chapters and our divisions that we have within OCA, that really just strengthens, if you will, the culture engagement across Ohio. So we're able to provide programs and all of those things to meet the diversity of our counselors as well as the clients that we serve. So to me, it just brings it all together and strengthens it even more.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think diversity is so beautiful in that it encompasses so much more than what maybe immediately comes to mind.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:You know, there even outside of gender, race, socioeconomic status, things like that, it's also like, do you live in a more rural area of the state? Do you live in a city? Um, how does that change your practice? Um, with those in those things in mind, what are some practical ways any counselors or counselors in training listening today can integrate cultural responsiveness into their daily practice?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's a great question. And when I think about being intentional in our daily practice, so for me, being aware, I mean, it starts with truly awareness and being present with our clients. And so in the here and now, so being aware of how we're feeling, how things we're experiencing in our own lives, but also being aware of the various things that our clients are experiencing, you know, because they're coming with us, coming to us with heavy things. You know, they're coming to us with, you know, matters and issues that are important to them and viral to them. And so we're helping to understand what those things are. And so if we can hear them, maybe hear what they're not telling us, what they're not saying, you know, beyond maybe the the words, but maybe their facial expression or their body language, things like that. So what are they communicating to us that perhaps they're not verbally saying? And so for me, being culturally responsive is can I pay attention to that? You know, can I tap into what I'm seeing that they're not saying? And so if I can reflect on maybe the cultural challenges they may be experiencing, and this may be accomplished by sometimes really just checking in with them on matters that may be uh impacting them externally. So for instance, if there's things in media or there are things in the news, check in with them and say, Well, you know, I know this is something that you may experience or deal with. How are you doing today with that? How was you know, those kinds of things, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's such an interesting idea of like what they aren't saying. Yes. I see a lot of kids in my practice, and a lot of times it is what they're not saying. It's usually, I have a kid who usually comes in and they want to tell me everything that happened at school, like to the minute. Like I'm learning the math problems, and I'm like the war of 1812. I had a great lesson on a couple weeks ago. And they they came in the last time I saw them, and they didn't have anything to say about school. And and it was very strange, and they they they're a little bit of a quiet kid, too. And so with with them, they have trouble kind of like translating brain to mouth sometimes, and so we do a lot of nonverbal stuff, and their family is actually very quiet as well, and so that's it's just like the culture in their family is like they're very quiet, like courteous people to each other. They they do a lot of like introspective activities and things at home as opposed to like housing and play, and so we do a lot of like collages and sand tray and checkers and and things like that. And so I think that cultural responsiveness can be so transformative for clients in sessions when they have troubles like that.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. It sounds just like the things that I was thinking about with um another culturally responsive kind of daily practice is our our interventions. So clearly, right there, the intervention you're using is really gonna engage with that client much better, you know, and really gonna get to understand them. So for me, utilizing those, you know, interventions that are gonna be helpful for engaging with our clients, you know, and really getting them, getting them to speak to us and talk to us and give us information, that kind of thing that again, they may not otherwise share if we didn't utilize that intervention or strategy, you know? And I think about also asking our clients, how can we help them? You know, like have we have to actually stop and said, you know, how can we be a help to you as a profession, you know? And this may or may not include us individually doing something, but collectively as a profession, how can we come together as a group of people who are wanting to have our clients have a better life, you know? So what can we do as a profession to help support them? So, yeah, very key things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think that makes me think of another question that we had kind of prepared for today, which is like we were talking a lot. I know with the conference it was one of the key themes, and also just something you're emphasizing, like equipping counselors and enhancing our skills and competence. Is there an area or something on the horizon that Ohio counselors need in order to grow right now?
SPEAKER_00:I would say, you know, of course, being that always being mindful of cultural competence and the importance of, you know, learning people, understanding people beyond some of the things we see most immediately, like you stated, such as, you know, gender, you know, race, ethnicity, things like that, but other cultural dimensions and things that are really challenging people or they're experiencing challenges in those various areas. So I think continuing to have that conversation, engagement, and competence around that is important because you're gonna deal with clients all the time from a diverse background backgrounds, diverse experiences, things of that nature. And overall, competence in general is so important for our profession because we're being challenged externally about what we do. You know, who are counselors? Oh, you're just sitting listening to people, things like that, or you know, we're not simply just listeners, you know? Like we are practitioners who are using evidence-based practices, we are individuals and groups that are using theories and practices and interventions to help guide the work that we do, you know. So being able to continue to build that competence, learning what's the advanced knowledge, you know, what's what are some of the advanced practices that are out there? You know, how do we look at AI? Things like that. And you know, no one wants to really touch the AI topic, but really we can use it to our benefit, you know, in session or things like that. So I think about things that may be nervous for us or maybe we're concerned about, let's use it to our advantage. Let's learn about it, you know. If it's something that's new that seems to be trending, let's see what we can do with it. You never know. So I think advancing our knowledge base, continue to expand our knowledge base is important. In essence, we are faced with questions about the benefits of counseling and the results and the outcomes. And so continue to find ways that we can show forth outcomes is gonna be helpful to us, whether that's measures, assessments, tools, things like that, that's gonna show things are changing with our individuals, you know? And so being able to see that change across time is gonna be helpful.
SPEAKER_01:I think that was such a good point about the external challenges and why our competency is so important in times like these. We recently did an episode with Chase, who's of course is the president-elect of OCA about the child details in our Supreme Court case and the argument that counseling or mental health care in general is is free speech and just talking. And I think that obviously there's more information. We don't have to go too in depth on this today, but I just that's what I was thinking about while you were talking about those external challenges and why it's so important for us to have our competencies and our counselor identities and being able to say who we are, what we do, the the thought process and the ethics behind what we do, and that is I think so important right now. Absolutely. Not just in Ohio, but nationally.
SPEAKER_00:Naturally, absolutely, and it's impacting all of us everywhere. And, you know, to the point of the external challenges, sometimes we do have to reiterate to people who we are. You know, like we know who we are and what we do, but being able to express that to other people so that they're aware of that is gonna be crucial for us. And so I always oftentimes indicate to people, you know, we're different from, say, someone's best friend being told the same information, or, you know, maybe their barber or their local, you know, bartender. I don't know. But we're different from those individuals in that we have these prescriptive ways and you know, interventions and skills and things like that that a lay person may not necessarily have.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think even differentiating counseling from the other mental health helping professions as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, very important. So good, so important.
SPEAKER_01:I hate to go off script a little bit, but what do you think identifies us as counselors, or what do you think are some of the cornerstones that help with that differentiation?
SPEAKER_00:I think for sure the skills and the theoretical perspectives that we use, because we're using those as a frame of reference. Like they're our guide, they are our marker, if you will. And it may not necessarily be that our clients fit in these nice boxes or you know, those kinds of things, but overall, we're able to help them with the skills that we're using. And so, you know, the questions that we're asking, you know, we're being intentional about those questions. We're probing, we're, you know, intentional about our follow-up questions, things like that that people may not think about. You know, sometimes when I'm working with people in session and I may ask a question, it's like, you know, I never thought about that. Or no one's ever asked me that question, or hmm, that's something interesting, you know. I mean, it really helps them to look at themselves and say, wow, let me take a look. Hmm, I never thought about that, but here's my first reaction to that, you know, and so I think it helps to dig a little bit deeper with our clients, but we're able to utilize that with our theories and our practices and things like that, our knowledge base that we have. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. I think one of my favorite things that clients can say to me is, I don't know. Yes, I've never thought about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, absolutely. Yeah, because then that gives them work in today. Right, and it gives them an opportunity to explore, you know, maybe an area that they did not know or maybe make connections. I think about that too, where in session we're making here and now present, you know, connections. You know, when clients have those aha moments, I love those, you know, of like, wow, you know, and they're just sitting there, you know. So I think it's just a great opportunity. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think one of the other strengths of our profession, at least in my experience and and in my practice, is mentorship and how connected Ohio counselors are, whether it's through OCA or educational institutions or our community mental health centers or our practices. And I know this is one of your big passions. What role do does mentoring or even networking and professional organizations like OCA play in shaping counselor identity?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think these things play a significant role in shaping our counselor identity. You know, these are the things that when I think about networking and mentoring and professional organizations in general, I think about supervision. I think about collaboration within and even withouts or outside of our counseling profession as well, because we're having to connect with others who are not necessarily counselors or within the counseling profession, but we need them to be able to assist the work that we do with clients. And so I also think about being connected to others that are in a professional organization. So it creates this, if you will, a sense of culture, a sense of unity, a sense of support one to another across our settings, across our specialties, things like that. So for me, you know, the mentoring, networking, and being connected to an organization is vital to your survival, I think, as a counselor, because we're not meant to be islands on our own naturally. And likewise, even within an organization or profession, we're not to meant to be, we're not meant to be, if you will, islands by ourselves doing this work. So we're working together, strengthening one another, encouraging one another, but also helping one another. So that consultation, you know, being able to say, hey, I don't know or I don't have the information, but let me ask a colleague, let me ask a peer, you know, let me ask a previous supervisor or previous, you know, person I work with or something like that. So I think it really builds a connection amongst our profession if we're using that opportunity to mentor one another, to be able to assist one another, to grow, to develop, you know, and to further advance together, you know. So those things are important when we're making sure that we stay uh strengthened and encouraged amongst our profession. And so networking is huge. You never know, and this is networking within the profession as well as outside the profession. Again, we don't know who, we don't know everything, but we connect with others so that we can gain that information.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. Do you have any formative memories of mentoring or networking that stand out to you through your journey?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I absolutely have several, you know, opportunities where I had mentors or previous supervisor, I've had great supervisors, and you know, Dr. Cynthia Osborne was a great mentor when I was going through my doctoral studies and things of that nature, and I really appreciate her willingness to share what she knew, but also her intentionality with developing leaders behind her. And so being able to bring us alongside of her, get us involved in presentations, get us involved in maybe co-teaching a class or something like that, getting involved in the service and the profession itself. And so that just continued to spark that. Well, it started that love for you know service and leadership, but it continued to spark that and continue to grow grow that within me. I also think about previous supervisors like I had. Um, his name is Paul Bellino, and I appreciate him even to this day when we get an opportunity to connect with one another. He was a great supervisor, he was one that would listen and was intentional about growing you and helping you and you know, even giving correction if that was needed. But he has such a willing heart and spirit to connect with with counselors and really help and grow counselors. And so just has a kind heart overall, but knows his information. And if he doesn't know something, he'll tell you that, hey, I don't know, but I'm gonna give you to someone who does, or let's let's search this, let's research it, that kind of thing. So, you know, excellent supervisors like that. And I have others as well, but those just two that stand out to me in my supervision, in my progress, if you will. And I kind of model my supervision after them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think a word that kept coming to my mind, not just with that answer, but just kind of throughout the course of us chatting today was like humility and the idea of like being humble with ourselves, with our clients, with our people that we're mentoring or our people who are mentoring us, and like being able to have that security in ourselves to say, I don't know, let me let me find out, let me use my resources. That's right. How do you feel your previous mentorships or networks have influenced your ability to help guide the next generation? I know you have a supervision designation, and also just with being president, that I think that lends itself well to those kinds of opportunities.
SPEAKER_00:I I think being able to be a model in some ways, and and it could be a different a lot of different ways in which it could be a model, but being a model and maybe a guide for people who are coming along, they're newer in the profession, helping to maybe shape them and help to develop and grow them. So I think those opportunities to give back, you know, through mentorship or give back through service, things like that, really helps to continue the profession, continues to grow us, and it continues to unite us amongst our various years of experiences and various experiences we've had in the profession with clients. So being able to connect and share with one another in those various capacities is very important. And it really lends itself to uh normalizing the fact that we're not doing this by ourselves. It just really puts it out there that we're connected, we're here to grow and develop develop even from graduate school all the way up into your career and you're maybe retiring or something like that. So I think those opportunities are there, and and I love being able to model that and provide opportunities for people to grow. Again, bring them alongside, just like someone did me and did with me. So I want to do those same things with others and new professionals in the um and even seasoned professionals, so not just new professionals, but also those that may have been in the field for a number of years.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I remember one of I think counselor identity gets talked a lot about, you know, obviously in grad school. And I think one of the things that was really kind of a small but big moment for me was when a a professor had us write down a couple of like meaningful phrases or words that come to mind with our counselor identity. And one of mine was lifelong learner, and I think that's so important in our field, obviously to stay up to date, but also just to I think it fits in with that humility idea again of like I don't know everything, I never will know everything.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And that's like okay. And I think the humanness of our work is so important and powerful, and that can sometimes be seen as like something that's less than ideal of like bringing an idea. I I don't think within our I think within our profession we all know that we're we're human and that's strength. But I think talking to other people outside of our profession, I've had questions of like, well, if you're if you have anxiety, how are you gonna help someone else with anxiety? And I think that is such a like a fundamental misunderstanding of of where we come from. Absolutely. Like on that side of the counseling realm.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, because we all are human. Absolutely. We all have our humanistic experiences and the various things that make us who we are to this point in time and who we've become and who we'll continue to become, actually. And so for people to think that we won't experience life like they are is very interesting, you know? And so I think that also can speak to how we're maybe able to assist people because maybe we've experienced similar things like them that we can share, maybe our experiences as we self-disclose, or being able to use some of our experience and background as a way to say, hey, some people experience things like this, and these are the things that some of those individuals may have done, you know, may have did or whatever in response to a particular circumstance or situation. So I think it'd be very powerful and helpful in connecting with our clients in that way. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think those are some of the most powerful moments I've had with clients where they I think a lot of times my my clients, my older clients, my teens and my emerging adults can can get very, I call them like shake and soda bottles, like they have so much potential energy and they they're like, I need to put this somewhere. And it's I've I think the thing I've seen that calms them the most outside of like a long breathing exercise or something a little more like traditionally clinical. It's just me being like, I remember when this happened to me, and I here I am in front of you, and I'm a whole person and I'm okay, and my life is intact, and my friends and family are still here, and like I did this five years ago, or I did this last week, and I think that is so revolutionary for them because on one hand, we are experts and we they're coming to us for help, but that that human quality to it and the humility I think is so healing and and special for clients, and then also, you know, for for counselors, I think it's a good reminder for us to remember we aren't perfect, we don't have to have all the answers, and and that's helpful for clients too.
SPEAKER_00:It is, it is helpful for them, and it goes back to modeling that for them. So being able to say, I don't know, being able to say, I'm unsure, being able to say, Yes, I was nervous and fearful too of starting something new or doing something different or making changes or experiencing, you know, trauma or whatever it might be. You may not go into the details of that trauma, but being able to say, I know what it feels like to be able to experience something that's traumatic that you didn't experience, you know, or you were not aware of. You know, so being able to tap into those experiences and share them to a degree with our clients can be empowering, you know, and it makes the real human experience and it normalizes human experiences.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I yeah, and I think that, you know, we talked about transference, counter-transference, and we have to be aware of that. But sometimes also client experiences are healing for us.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, it is, and vice versa, absolutely it is. And so sometimes, you know, you I reflect on maybe different experiences in a session of some sort, and you know, I sit and think, like, wow, I can remember being in that spot, thinking the same thing, those kinds of things. And so, you know, those are opportunities of like aha for me, but also as an opportunity for me to to reach out to maybe my supports and say, you know, hey, this is what I've experienced, etc. And, you know, it kind of came up for me during my session with a client that I didn't share with them, but something I was thinking about once the session was over, once, you know, the things have processed. So yeah, those opportunities are very rewarding for me because it does keep you grounded. It really does. And keeps you with your feet to the ground to what's happening and what's being experienced by our clients, that we don't lose sight of that, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. And I think that is somewhat of a protective factor for us when we think about our longevity in the field, right? Is that our at times our work is hard and it's draining and it's it's challenging, but there's also an inherent like reward in seeing clients do well or seeing those aha moments. Um, you know, we talk a lot about counselor wellness, and I know that's that's a focus you're you're bringing to the organization right now, and and we talk about it a lot, but it can be really hard to practice. I I have trouble practicing it. I know my friends who are counselors have trouble practicing it, and my friends who aren't counselors have trouble practicing it. What are some strategies you use to encourage your own wellness and self-care if you if you feel open to sharing?
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So it it can be challenging. I will agree with you 100% on that. That is very challenging sometimes to consider self-care and being intentional about it, you know. But I I I remind myself that if I'm not intentional by my own self-care, then how can I be my best if I, if you will, to help my clients and the people that I'm serving, whether it's supervisees, you know, colleagues, whoever it may be. And so I have to think about that from the standpoint of can I be my best, you know, if I'm not caring for myself. And it's challenging. It is challenging because sometimes we lose sight of in the means of helping others that we don't help ourselves in the process. So it can be challenging. But for me, I have a community of support who helps to balance kind of that work and play and you know, those kinds of things like we can work and work and work. But I try my best to play and play and play too, you know, and so having opportunities where I can refresh that I can regain that energy and that strength to keep going and doing the daily things that I do. And so for me, I engage in journaling and I used to write a lot physically in a journal, but a lot of times now I'm more so typing it out, maybe something notes in my phone or something like that. So do maybe audio journaling as well. And so sometimes I'm on a go and I'm just gonna I'm gonna click the you know the recording and just kind of spill some things out. So I have a variation of ways in which I journal now than initially when I first started college, way back when that I would usually write something out. And I still have those journals today, and I love to look back on them and see where I was and what my mindset was and what was I experiencing at that time. So it's very refreshing and rewarding for me to do the journaling and be able to look back. Some additional things I love to do is to read, and so these are you know, some people like fiction and novels and things like that. I don't necessarily like those kinds of things, but you know, reading self-empowerment kinds of books or things on leadership, things that maybe are developmental, if you will, and things like that. So I love reading stuff like that. I also love listening to music and just kind of relaxing along those lines. And for me, a core is my faith, you know, and my support from my faith community. So for me, that keeps me going, it keeps me grounded, it keeps me refreshed in in different ways in which I carry out the various services that I do. And so I try my best to make sure that faith is at a core, whether that's connecting with other faith believers, being involved, things of that nature. So those are really things that help my self-care. And I'm just intentional about taking time for myself. And sometimes it's really down to one minute of mindfulness breathing. Honestly, one minute. And so I even show some of my students that there is a website, it's called De Stress Monday. De Stress Monday. And you go on there and they have so many different breathing apparatuses, and all it is is just one minute to do it. Barely. You can do it over and over if you want to, but really it's just breathing with maybe a heart or breathing with some object that's swelling and the, you know, things like that. So just taking one minute to do that out my day, it just refreshes you, it just revives you. And so it doesn't take a whole lot of time, it doesn't cost money. I don't need to go on vacation for it. Although I do take that time as well, but just one minute to engage in mindfulness breathing has been extremely helpful throughout the day, particularly after I've had a challenging session, you know, that was rough for the client. It was challenging, it was, you know, really digging deep a little bit for our clients. And so taking that moment after that session, before I go into my next one, I will take that mindful moment. I've I've learned that. Because otherwise, then I'm like, oh, you know, in a tizzy and, you know, very anxious going into the next session. And that's not fair to my next client. So I take that moment, gather my mind, gather my heart, all those kinds of things, and then be able to go fresh, if you will, into that next session with that client because I want to give them my all just like I gave the previous client. Um, so those are just some of the things I've learned. Trust me, it has taken a minute to get to that point, you know, at this point in the field where, you know, I'm 26 years in with the profession at this point. And so I've learned that over time when initially I did not know that. I wasn't as aware of it. And so the potential for burnout was there, you know. And so I I made sure that I started to do it for myself. And then I'm also intentional about my supervisees and those I work with, you know, to help them to be intentional too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. I think that burnout is kind of a scary word sometimes for our profession because there's, you know, this is our job, but it's also a human connection, like we've talked about. We are doing a service to people, we are advocates for people. And so that it's so common with the demand. Like I think the system we work in isn't the most well oriented towards the work we do and the like requirements of of showing up for everyone in our in our systems. What kind of systemic or organizational supports do you hope OCAA can provide to help counselors sustain themselves because our field is so demanding and burnout can be so prevalent for us.
SPEAKER_00:Right, that's that's excellent. And when I immediately think about systemic kind of organizational supports, I think about ways in which OCA is intentional, about opportunities such as conferences and workshops, you know, gathering together in some form or fashion. So I think about these are opportunities to network as we talked about already and connecting. And so it also can increase that education and you know the knowledge base that we get as well, but really it helps to connect one another of across Ohio. So, you know, those in Northeast can talk to someone in the Southeast area and be able to say, hey, I've been dealing with this in my area, you know, help me to explore options or ways to address this. You know, what are you doing in your area that maybe I can bring to my area, things of that nature. So I really think it's important that we are as a group, as an organization, being mindful of how do we provide opportunities for our clinicians, for our practitioners, for our students, everyone in their various settings, opportunities to refresh, to renew their energy and their strength, their strength, and be able to continue on in this work. It's not easy work. It is hard sometimes, it's challenging sometimes. Um, it can be very emotionally and mentally taxing sometimes, but it's also rewarding at the same time. It's energizing at the same time, it's encouraging at the same time. And so being able to balance that out of when I feel a little down or feel like my energy is depleting. I can think about a colleague, I can call a colleague, I can reach out to a colleague, things like that, and say, oh, I can look forward to I'm gonna connect with some colleagues at the conference or connect with some colleagues at this workshop that we're going to, things like that. So I think those are great opportunities that as a group, as an organization, we've been intentional about within OCA. And I hope to continue that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think one of the things that I've been thinking about as we've been talking is I think for me and I hope for others who are involved, like being in OCA can be really empowering. It makes me feel really connected, it's a good opportunity for learning. What excites you about building things like coaching and supervision into OCA? Because those are also inherently powerful as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, oh, they're they're definitely empowering and helpful. And it really strengthens our profession. So, you know, for me, being connected with like-minded individuals. Like who wants to be a part of anything that you don't see a connection, even if you feel there are differences, you know, but can you still connect with people who are like-minded and at least going in a similar direction that you're going? So to me, that's exciting. To me, that's refreshing. To me, that gives an opportunity for me to, you know, continue that passion that I have and the zeal I have for the profession. But it also can ignite that fire, you know, just in case maybe the fire is fizzling out a little bit, you know? So being connected with one another. It's like rubbing sticks together, you know, as they say, like the natural campfire, just rubbing those sticks together and everybody's coming together, all of a sudden now you have a united, you know, of the igniting of the flames again. And so it's really that opportunity for us to connect to be able to continue that passion and be able to continue that growth. And so having coaching and supervision opportunities where you can talk with people about hard topics, talk with colleagues about, you know, things that are maybe challenging. Maybe you have a direct supervisor that you can connect with and have your ongoing supervision, but also times where maybe you don't have a direct supervisor because you are the supervisor. Then you connect with someone and it can provide coaching to you or mentorship, things like that, consultation. Those are not the areas that we can expand and be able to connect with one another and be able to have that coaching and supervision opportunities. You know, I tell people across the profession, you never outgrow the opportunity to connect with another professional on the work that in the work that we're doing. You don't outgrow that. You're always going to find opportunities where there's going to be more to know, more things to try to experience, more information to gain. And so, no matter how long you've been in a profession, as much of the experiences we have throughout our number of years, there are opportunities to grow and to do better. And it's go it goes back to the point you made earlier about lifelong learner. We absolutely have to be that. We're expecting our clients to be a lifelong learner. We're expecting them to stretch and to reach and to grow. Why not us as well as professionals? So supervision may be needed, of course, in your early stages of your licensure, but also once you become more seasoned, if you will, maybe coaching might be more appropriate or consultations might be more appropriate than, if you will, direct one-on-one supervision. So again, those opportunities to grow and connect, and it helps to decrease the burnout rate, according to research.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. I think we've talked a lot about you have a really strong vision for OCA and what you want to do with your time. Are there any ways that members or listeners can get involved in furthering that vision or in the organization in general?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's awesome. We create opportunities, opportunities everywhere. And so, you know, OCA has many divisions that of interest, you know, that I think many other counselors can find somewhere, you know, to be able to plant their feet, if you will, as being a member of OCA. And so that's that's opportunities, those are opportunities right there with different divisions. And I tell people if there's a division that's not there or an interest area that's not listed, let's get it started. Let's try to figure it out. Let's try to get, you know, something on the books, if you will. So opportunities to serve, to opportunities for leadership, things like that are everywhere within OCA, within our divisions, within a chapter that you may pick. There are plenty of opportunities. There's some impromptu things that maybe come up where it's only maybe short time that you could be a part of committee and do something, and then that's it, you know. So it could be as long as you need it to be or as short as you need it to be. So there's a variety of opportunities where it doesn't, you know, cost a whole lot. It may cost your time, and maybe not a lot of time. So it's not like you're giving 40 hours or something like that. It could be something that's one hour a month, potentially, maybe something once a week that's an hour. So there's so many opportunities to get involved, to get connected. We have different, again, different divisions, different chapters, different subgroups within those. We have different committees within OCA as well that are not necessarily connected to a division or chapter. So those things are very important as well. It keeps us afloat, it keeps us functional, it keeps us operating well. And so, again, opportunities to grow are all within OCA. And if there's something that perhaps is needed, an area for growth, tell us about it. Let's bring it, let's figure it out, let's try to create that opportunity for that person. So lots of opportunities. Get connected, get involved. There is something for you to do and to be able to grow and develop within OCA.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. I think it it can be overwhelming when you first join, whether you're in grad school and they like make you join for your class. Or once you graduate, it there's so much to kind of wade through. But I think it's so wonderful to like find where you fit and find the thing that you really like to contribute and like um put some fuel in your fire and helps you sustain something that is such a wonderful part of the thing. If you could leave counselors in Ohio with a message of encouragement right now, I know we talked a little bit vaguely about some challenges outside the profession. What what would your message be for anyone who's maybe having a bit of a hard time right now or just, you know, could use some fuel for their fire?
SPEAKER_00:You know, one thing I I thought about and I made sure to write it down so I wouldn't forget, and I've been constantly actually saying it, so I really shouldn't forget it, but I want to continue to say it state it is that together we stand and together we advance. Together we stand and together we advance. And so I'm reminded of the fact that we are unified together, and I want to continue to encourage people that we are here together, despite our differences, despite maybe not agreeing on everything, we're still here together as a group, and we can also as a group advance together, push the profession forward, be able to give voice to the clients that we serve, being able to give voice to the professions, you know, to professionals within the profession. And so together we can voice where there may be challenges that we need to address, maybe being able to connect on issues and matters that we can advance the profession and things like that. So we stand together and we advance together. So I encourage people, you are not by yourself, you are not alone, someone is here to be able to support you. Just reach out, reach out. We tell our clients all the time, reach out and you know, you know, get some help or whatever it might be when you're struggling. The same thing within the profession. If there are challenges you're being that you're experiencing, if there are struggles or whatever it may be, reach out, connect with someone. Someone is able to help you. And more than likely, one or several individuals have been in the same spot you were in at some point. So being able to connect with one another is huge. If I would leave that encouraging word there. Again, together we stand and together we advance. So let's advance together.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Well, lastly, we ask this question on every episode. The name of our podcast is Ohio Counseling Conversations. What important conversations do you think counseling professors should be having with each other and or their clients in our state?
SPEAKER_00:Um, well, several conversations for sure that I think can need to continue and further have opportunities for these conversations to be at our forefront, if you will. So we should have conversations about how to further advance the work that we do. And so whether that this is more research or more assessments, more tools, things like that, in which we can advance the work that we do. Again, showing the quality work and the results and the outcomes. You know, when you're able to show change in very tangible ways, it really supports and validates the work that you're doing. So I think conversations about how can we again show forth the great work that we're doing and show the outcomes that we need. I think another conversation that we need to have is how we can support, continue to support our clients and give them a voice to their concerns. You know, many of our clients feel so downtrodden sometimes, they feel worn out by issues of life. And so for them, they don't have anything else to give. They don't know what else they may be able to share. And so in their mind, can someone else speak up for me? Can someone else advocate for me? So for me, having conversations about how do we further support our clients and give voice to their concerns. Also, concerns or excuse me, conversations about reimbursement. Another conversation that we need to constantly have. We don't want to always talk about money, we don't always want to talk about insurances. Those are tough things to deal with because they're external to us in some ways. But they really want to help support the work that we're doing, they help validate the work that we're doing, but it also substantiates the work that we're doing. So we need to talk about the financial part of it. No one wants to do this work and not get paid. Yeah, there are opportunities we're providing pro bono, if you will, where we're giving it to giving back to the community or giving back to profession and we're offering this for free or something like that. But they're most of the times we're looking for some reimbursement to be able to support ourselves. These are our livelihoods, just like any other profession. And so we need to make sure that we're having conversations about reimbursement rates that are going to be equitable across different professions and different disciplines, you know. So our other similar disciplines are we being paid and reimbursed similarly? If it's less than, we need to have a conversation about that. Looking at our insurances and saying, you know, are our services being rever re-reimbursed at the rate that they need to be reimbursed at? Are we able to have the sessions that we need to work with the individuals that we're working with? So if you're only limited to five, let's advocate how do we get 10? How do we get 15? Things like that. Granted, we really don't have as many of those challenges like we did once before in the field, but sometimes we do meet, you know, external challenges where they want to limit what we're able to do. And so conversations about how do we ensure we stay viable, how do we ensure that we are reimbursements are comparable to our similar disciplines and things of that nature, and other things to help support our overall profession would be matters of any external challenges that may come up. It may be something we never thought of. Okay, let's have a conversation about that. This is being brought down with legislation or with you know rules and laws. Let's talk about it. We didn't anticipate that. Let's talk about it, let's bring it to the table. Because for me, let's not shy away from those challenging or maybe uncomfortable conversations, but they're conversations that need to be had, you know. So being forefront and being in as a forerunner, if you will, to having those challenging conversations, we should be able to do that. We push our clients all the time to have challenging conversations with us. Why can't we have that as a profession where we need to maybe able to grow those kinds of things within our profession? So being able to have those challenging conversations, I would say overall, would be helpful to us.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that. I think there's a pressure sometimes to present like everything's great and we love our jobs, which we do, but there are ways where we could be better taken care of or we could advocate for ourselves.
SPEAKER_00:That's right, that's right.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Carmela. I really appreciate you taking the time and we look forward to seeing the rest of your presidential residency and all the great things you're gonna bring to the organization.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity.
SPEAKER_01:From integrating cultural responsiveness into our everyday work to prioritizing wellness and self-care, Carmela highlighted how intentional growth and connection shape who we are as counselors. Her emphasis on mentorship, networking, and professional identity calls us to stay rooted in our purpose while continuing to evolve in competence and compassion. As we look ahead, it's clear that OCA is committed to empowering counselors through coaching, supervision, and systemic support, helping us sustain the important work we do for others and for ourselves. Carmella leaves us with a powerful message that each of us has the ability to lead change, not just within our counseling rooms, but within our communities and our state. Together, through shared conversations and collaboration, we can advance a stronger, more inclusive counseling profession in Ohio. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Ohio Counseling Conversations. Be sure to subscribe, share, and continue the dialogue because the most important conversations are the ones that move us forward.