Ohio Counseling Conversations
Ohio Counseling Conversations
Let's Unpack That #11: Bad Advice That Sounds Good
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“If they wanted to, they would.” “Be the bigger person.” “Time heals all wounds.” These lines can sound clean and confident, but when you’re living real life with limited capacity, messy relationships, and actual grief, they can land like a brick wall. We sit down as two counselors who hear these sayings in sessions, group chats, and counseling rooms, and we pull them apart with the nuance they rarely get online.
We talk about why behavior isn’t always a simple measure of desire and how burnout, skills, fear, and unclear expectations change what people can realistically do. We also get honest about boundaries: “being the bigger person” can support safety and de-escalation, but it can also become permission to stay silent, skip accountability, and abandon yourself. If you’ve ever wondered whether speaking up is “too much,” this conversation offers a grounded way to think about integrity, communication, and self-respect.
Then we move into grief and loss, where platitudes tend to multiply. We explain why “time heals all wounds” and “everything happens for a reason” often function as silver-lining pressure, especially when pain is sticky and long-lasting. We also challenge the idea that you must love yourself before you can love others, naming how connection and relationships can be part of healing rather than a reward for being fully “fixed.”
If you’re a counselor, helping professional, or just someone tired of toxic positivity, you’ll leave with better language, better questions, and a clearer sense of what actually helps. Subscribe, share with a colleague or friend, and leave a review, then tell us which cliché you want us to unpack next.
What do you think? Send us your questions or topics you'd like us to unpack!
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Created by the OCA's Media, Public Relations, and Membership (MPRM) Committee & its Podcast Subcommittee
·Hosted by Victoria Frazier & Marisa Cargill
·Pre-Production & Coordination by Marisa Cargill and Victoria Frazier
·Editing by Marisa Cargill
·Original music selections by Elijah Satoru Wood
Welcome And Why Nuance Matters
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Let's Unpack That, a short form segment from Ohio Counseling Conversations, where we dig into the topics, tools, and truths that shape our work as counselors. Whether it's a trending issue, a clinical insight, or something we've all been thinking about, we're here to process it together.
SPEAKER_02Well, welcome back to Let's Unpack That here on Ohio Counseling Conversations. I'm your host, Dr. Rosa Cargill, joined with my lovely co-host, Victoria Frazier. And today we are unpacking advice that sounds wise, sounds smart. So maybe you actually think about it. They might be phrases that show up on Pinterest in family group chats and sometimes even in counseling rooms, but they're incomplete at best and harmful at worst. And as a reminder, like we might be shining a light on this advice that could lead someone straight into a brick wall. This enter this conversation is for entertainment and discussion. It's not intended as necessarily clinical or professional advice. We know that most advice does require some nuance and maybe context. And so our favorite it depends answer is probably going to apply to some of the advice that we discussed today, but we're going to take some stances on in general, what do we think about this stuff? So, Tori, are you ready to unpack it? I've never been more ready. Oh, yeah. All right. So we're gonna leave with my least favorite social media advice that, like, really, maybe there's some personal stuff that we could we don't need to touch on because this isn't my therapy session, but it makes me upset. It makes me feel some sort of way. The advice is drumroll, please. If they wanted to, they would. What is your immediate reaction?
If They Wanted To They Would
SPEAKER_03My immediate reaction is to go that that that yuck. Yeah, a big yuck. That's my official response. Yuck. I think like, I don't know, I understand that people say that when maybe they're trying to support someone who's feeling like they aren't having people in their lives shop for them, or in response to someone else's relationship working a certain way. But I also think like some people have life experiences that are different and they don't know what should be expected, or like they don't have the tools to have learned what is helpful.
SPEAKER_02Sounds good, it's catchy, you know. You could even put it on, you know, a sticker or a t-shirt and be like, yeah, this is gonna sell. It's a hot ticket item. It's simple and like easy to digest, but I think what where it misses the mark is that I try to say, like, rather than think about the other person, and if they wanted to, they would. I think about do I do everything I want to do? Like, if I wanted to, would I? And sometimes it's not about my desire, it's about my capacity. I want to be useful and helpful to so many people, but if I'm useful and helpful and helpful to everyone who asks, I'm burnt out. So like it's not about not wanting to, it's that I don't have the capacity to always. And so I I try to say, like, if that's true for me, can't that be true for other people? And so I feel like on the surface, it looks catchy and good, but that it also makes people feel like then so then it's the reason they're not doing this for me is because they don't want to show up for me. And I think that that maybe just forgets that like they might want to, they may not know how to, they may not have the capacity to, like, there's like so many other explanations, and it's not to say let's give get them off the hook for not maybe showing up for you in ways that would be meaningful to your relationship with them, but it just feels like it kind of then makes you feel like, well, I wasn't good enough to show up for or something.
SPEAKER_03Does that make sense? Yeah, I think that makes so much sense. I almost feel like this could apply if there's a pattern or if we had I also think something about this saying almost excuses you from having to speak up for yourself and being like, clearly the problem is they don't want to, versus like, okay, well, what's the expectation? Have you had a conversation about this? Do they know that you'd like them to help you cook dinner or I mean, you know, whatever the example is. I think it can take away some of our personal accountability in relationships. Yeah, I appreciate you saying that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it just is it on surface, looks cutesy, and yeah, that's a good way to say it and support my friend, but like maybe misses the mark. And as I went with, like to me, misses the mark huge. I concur.
SPEAKER_03Mark has been missed. Mark, you're where are you? Sorry, dad.
SPEAKER_02That's my dad's name. Oh, sorry. Sorry, Mark. It's okay. We love you. Sorry, Mark. He's fine. Thanks for listening. Okay, so the next one, and I feel like this came up for me. I mean, it comes up often, right? Like with sessions throughout the weeks, but be the bigger person. How do you feel about this advice?
Be The Bigger Person
SPEAKER_03I think it sucks because I did it for a very long time. That was like my M. It was like, I'm gonna be the bigger person. And Slay. I love that. Like, I love the emotional maturity of that and that it orients us towards trying to de-escalate. But I also think that it does not encourage us to learn how to plant our foot, and it doesn't help us learn our boundaries need to be respected. If we're just like, I it they can do whatever they want because I'm the bigger person. And I think it's different, like in different contexts. Like, sure, there are times where we don't need to respond in kind to someone being rude or whatever it may be. But I think that if we like use that as an expectation for every interaction, that's our only solution. I think that gets into maybe some dangerous territory.
SPEAKER_02I wholeheartedly agree. I think what it it de-escalates, and and let's be real clear. The context is like obviously we want people to be safe. And so we're not saying like get messy and you know, like down in the mud if it's like unsafe. But I also I I think that that advice sometimes dismisses catharsis in terms of like, hey, sometimes I need to tell someone what's up. I need to tell you what just happened here and why it can't happen again. And maybe to to someone that might seem like I'm telling someone off or whatever, but like if I've never spoken up for myself, my ability to do that, first of all, probably took a lot of courage. And so, like being the bigger person doesn't allow me for to have the relief and the empowerment and like all of the things that maybe come with not necessarily being the bigger person, maybe just being better to myself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think that there's a big difference between being a small person and like backstabby and rude and mean versus choosing to align with your values and what feels like integrity to you, and saying something like, Hey, that's not okay with me, or that action hurt me. Like you, everyone has, and this is I don't know, some crazy things, like inherent value on the earth, and they deserve to have like their space, and that requires sometimes like having being a person of various sizes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it sometimes that is just disempowering advice, and it encourages someone to abandon like those values or just themselves entirely. And so again, we know it's all with nuance, but that yeah, I'm not a huge fan of that. There might be a situation where being the bigger person is appropriate, but the pattern, like you were saying with the last one, if it if that's always the pattern, that that that maybe becomes a problem. All right.
SPEAKER_01I think go ahead.
SPEAKER_02No, what were you gonna say? I was gonna cut you off.
SPEAKER_03I like it.
SPEAKER_02Let's go with it.
SPEAKER_03Unpack it, girl. I think that it can all it obviously leads away from conflict, right? And that's something lovely about it, but it's also not doing favors to others who maybe don't know how their actions are impacting you or other people around them. Yeah, and so I just I don't know that we're always doing someone a favor by being quiet. That's all. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So this next one time heals all wounds. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, I think time heals some wounds. Sure. But I think all is a crazy expectation.
Time Heals All Wounds
SPEAKER_02I feel like we have so many grief experts in OCA that I don't want to like steal their thunder or their words, but but having been in a relationship with some of them for many years, Kaylee Bradley, who used to work on the podcast, and this is generally bad advice. I think it speaks to like the desire to be comforting, but much like our previous statement, misses the mark in so many ways, because it's not it's not a for sure thing. We can't promise time heals all wounds, and I think it dismisses like it's what people who maybe aren't as familiar with grief, and I don't mean grief just from like like loss in terms of death, but like we grieve other losses in our life, but it's one of the more uncomfortable emotions, which therefore makes it generally for a lot of people in our culture more uncomfortable to talk about. And so it's sort of like this placating statement because I don't know how to talk about it in a way that's like not hopeful, but just realistic and maybe just like even present-oriented of like, I can see this is really hard for you, and I'm so sorry. Like this sucks.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, totally. I think it takes from their current experience, like you were saying. I also think that if we're delivering that message to someone, and it's been a while since the whatever it is hurting them, whatever that wound is, it can lead us down a path of what's wrong with me. Why isn't time healing my wound? Like, has it not been long enough? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like, yeah. Still waiting, like what yeah, and and yes, of course, when we're talking about healing, I think it doesn't happen overnight. And we can so we can note that, like, yes, it can take time, but it takes, I think, intention and attention to like what's hurting and why it's hurting, and like acknowledging the hurt, not just making sweeping statements about like time will help.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I also think we have a lot more knowledge and understanding of how grief impacts various areas of our functioning and also like our physical vessel that we all ride around in all day. And that doesn't heal itself. You know what I mean? This I tell this to some of my kids, like some feelings are sticky and we can't just let them go away. We have to work with them and walk through them as opposed to just hanging out with them for a while. Like there are some feelings where if we just take our time and you know, we're chill, they'll go away. But there are lots of them that I feel are stickier. I don't have a more clinical word than sticky, but I feel like grief is a really sticky feeling.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes clinical language fails us where like you know, human language like sticky works. Yeah. The the next one I think is similar, and so maybe we'll have similar feelings, but like I feel it comes up sometimes in people's responses to grief, but I feel like uh sometimes extends beyond that or come or does come up a lot with other losses, but like everything happens for a reason. I wish y'all could see your face. We might have to turn that one into a real.
Everything Happens For A Reason
SPEAKER_03I just think that puts so much personal responsibility on you. If, like, I don't know, the first thing that came to mind was like job hunting right now is so challenging for so many people. And if you're sending out a hundred job applications and you're hanging back from two, and one of those is a rejection email and saying, you know, it didn't work out because there's another great job waiting. It takes away from the pain we're experiencing right now. It also takes away from if someone has hurt you, and we're saying we can learn from this. It takes away the responsibility of people who have harmed us.
SPEAKER_02The the logical part of me says, Yeah, there can be a reason, right? There can be a reason, but it doesn't have to be a purpose, right? Like, because I think what it that statement sort of asks of people when it's given is like, you know, I I hear this maybe in like more spiritual realms, but like getting like a mess, a message out of the mess, you know, like, and it's great if you can have a testament and there is purpose for you out of something, but I don't think it's true for everything. And sometimes it's saying, like, well, how can we paint sunshines and rainbows over this situation? How can we turn this lemon into lemonade? And you're like, no, this is just trash, like actually, and I don't need to make anything out of it. Like, that yeah, the reason is that person was harmful, and I don't need to to make a like that my life's purpose either. Like that maybe that's not helpful. It can be helpful for some people to find a message out of that, to to make lemonade, but I think asking that is also like asking us to do work that is not ours to do necessarily when it's like, no, like that shouldn't have happened to you. The reason is there's evil in the world, or you know what I mean? Like, on a that's a very existential statement to make. But like the reason I'm not just pointing a finger. I didn't want to use a specific example, but the reason is that that that person is harmful or that person is abusive, rather than like, how can we, you know, turn this into something? That's a very personal decision. And for some people, it's not necessary, nor is it helpful.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think what I've been thinking about this whole episode is there's this video I love showing clients. It's a Brene Brown video that someone has animated Little Woodland Creatures to. It's really cute. It's about sympathy versus empathy, the differences between all my classes. I first saw it in training to work at the Apple store. So I'm glad that it's out and about in the world. I she uses she turns silver lining things into a verb, and she talks about using the phrase at least. And I think a lot of these kind of fall into that category for me where it's like we're trying to find something intentionally kind, but it's neglecting their current experience and it's trying to get them to feel better, and that's not always what people need. And like the example she uses is like my son is failing out of school, and that's at least Sarah's a grade A student or someone who has lost a pregnancy, and they say, Well, at least you know you can get pregnant. And I think that kind of falls into a lot of the same categories as these of the you grow through what you go through, kind of thing. I think it places this expectation of learning and existential meaning making on a person that also you know, those are lovely things and they're very healing, but it might not be where that person is at right now. And I think it's it's trying to on some level make them feel better because the way they're feeling is making us uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And it's also okay if they never feel like they have want to, need to, wish to, like make meaning out of it. Yeah. So the last we're gonna give some honorable mentions and shout-outs, but the last major one we have here, another one that does bug me, you sort you have to love yourself before you can love like someone else, or before someone else can love you. Like basically, like you gotta love yourself first, and then like add anything else will follow. So another face I'm looking at, but uh pause. So, what are your immediate thoughts, Tori? Hate.
Love Yourself Before Loving Others
SPEAKER_03Have hated before I knew anything about loathe entirely, have has have disliked since I was a child, and I heard RuPaul tell it to all the queens. Like, for those who don't know, at the end of an episode of RuPaul's Drag Race, RuPaul says, if you can't love yourself, how are you gonna love somebody else? And I have before I knew anything about counseling, I was like, I think that sucks because people have hard days where they can't, and that doesn't mean they're not worthy of relationships. And now having a level of expertise and understanding, uh relationships are so healing inherently. And it's like, I'm a big social learning theory girl, not to get to textbook on our fun podcast, but we don't know we're funny unless people laugh at us. We don't know we have a good, we're smart until we get a good grade on a test. We learn through the world. And if you're closing yourself off to a very large part of the experience because you're having a struggle with your self-worth or your self-efficacy or whatever it might be, I think that's doing such a disservice not only to yourself, but to the people you can also help learn and grow by product of being you and connecting with them. And I think that is setting such a dangerous expectation of isolation for people who are having hard times. And it genuinely, this is the one that like boils my blood the most.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I I also think it's easy to convince oneself in isolation that we are healed. And then a lot is confronted when in relationship with others, where like we can't actually maybe fully do some of that work without allowing ourselves to be in relationship with others and experience giving, like allowing ourselves to be vulnerable in relationships and trusting people and build like knowing that not everyone is going to maybe harm us the way like a past relationship might have. And that doesn't mean they don't have the power to harm us at all or harm us differently, but it we can't say we're like healed by something and able to do things when we don't. We like you're saying, we learn in relationship. Like, yeah, we didn't poke at that, like, you know, pain point if we stayed like in our little bubble forever. And it's also like it's unfair. Like, I guess I just think about so many situations where people love others, and that can be like pets and friends and family members and things like that, even when they're struggling with something that they don't like or love about themselves. And so it it's inherently like false for so many, like we have so much evidence that that's not true. Like by other situations where we we recognize like I can experience love of this creature or love of this friend, family member, partner, whomever, and I still maybe don't feel great about myself. Does how I feel about myself affect maybe how I experience relationships? It's possible, but it's it's also not impossible to experience that without. So yeah, that's the last major one, but I wanted to give some honorable mentions to a few that people on our social media had acknowledged were bad advice, which I think are very easy to see. One similar to the grief comments that that we had already shared, but like so-and-so is in a better place. Feels very dismissive, minimizing. Calm down because it's so effective in helping people calm down.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's our whole job. I think if that worked, we would just hand that out and we'd be done.
Honorable Mentions That Miss
SPEAKER_02Don't worry. I always joke when you my poor mother, I'm not she's a lovely lady. Say hi, Rita. Hi, Rita. She's not here, but hopefully she's listening. If she ever says don't worry, I tease her because I might say, Oh, that's great advice. I'll just not worry about it. Why didn't I think about it? But I say that just because it's like, yeah, like if that worked, then we wouldn't have a career, probably a newer one. Let them Tori just rolled her eyes, and I will say, like, I didn't, but internally I am. We maybe could do a whole episode on that one, so we maybe we should put that in our back pocket. But yes, it's not the best. I wanted to share a few Tori real quick. Kind of a yay or nay, like just not in it depends, but if you had to like keep it, you know, like unpack or put it back, like what will we do? Never give up.
SPEAKER_03I mean, if we're going for like the base level, like, yay, yes, please continue. Like you are needed and the world needs you, and also not to assign homework, but if anyone knows what's up with Sisyphus in that boulder, like you have to keep pushing it up the hill. Like, yes, please don't give up. But also if you hate playing soccer, you don't have to sign up again next year.
Rapid Fire Advice Gut Checks
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, like there are certain situations where never give up is yeah, like I don't want you to like quit on yourself in some ways, but like also quitting the team might actually be you not giving up on yourself, right? Like, I think sometimes we have to give up certain things and it's like for our benefit. Don't take no for an answer. That's harmful in so many ways. That's my yeah. It's like yeah, like sometimes no is a complete sentence, and that's someone's boundary, or like sometimes a no, like in a job, is feedback, right? Not saying you have to do that, everything happens for a reason and try and turn that into purpose, but it's feedback of like, okay, what what did that know mean? So yeah, and I certainly being persistent and things like that can be beneficial, but also can be harmful there.
SPEAKER_03Better safe than sorry. Maybe I have my own lens on this just by way of my brain and my own journey. But I think if we're always trying to err on the side of caution, then a lot of opportunities are not available to us anymore. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that we, I think, are called as like professionals to help people identify like healthy risk-taking behavior. And so while we always want people to be safe, I think it's about safe enough. And and so when we add that lens over it to me, it's like, yeah, sometimes if we're indulging the better safe than sorry. Maybe indulging is not the right word to use there, but like if we're endorsing that, then we're also maybe not helping people come to strategies that will support them in the healthy risk-taking, safe enough approach.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_02Never go to bed angry. What do you think?
SPEAKER_03Yuck. Hate.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Loathe and battery. I yeah, agree. Like you can go to bed angry. Like sometimes that's actually very healthy and productive.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's not an excuse to avoid a resolution or take accountability, but oftentimes I feel like you're gonna have a clearer head if you take some time. Yeah. Practice makes perfect. I don't love the expectation of perfection in any scenario. Like, I think that can be a good idea.
SPEAKER_02Yes, thank you. I feel like using the word perfect in like in any type of therapeutic context is really like we need to be very mindful and intentional because I think perfectionism is a very specific like breed of anxiety that is harmful. And when I have clients bring kind of that mindset in, one of the things that I do is quote a coach that I yes, I used to be an athlete in middle school. Okay. How about it? Oh, it's clean. Yeah, not really after that. It was just show choir in high school and musicals and stuff. I picked Elaine, you know? In middle school, I played basketball and volleyball. But when we our basketball coach would say practice makes permanent, when we would run drills, it was about practice makes permanent because perfect isn't the goal. It's that we want that skill to be consistent, that it feels almost like instinctual, right? Like that you could do it in your sleep kind of situation. And so I think when we're talking about like practicing skills, it's about the goal isn't perfect, it's about having this become a more permanent part, like a more regular part of your rhythm and routine so that it feels comfortable enough. Comfortable enough. Right. All right, last one, and I have strong feelings about this one, even though I love Disney. Just keep swimming.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I think that's pretty similar to the never give up situation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it is, it is.
SPEAKER_03Sometimes you need a break.
SPEAKER_02I I've had clients use it and I said, Would you but you don't keep swimming if you know you're in shark-infested waters? Like you're gonna get out, you're gonna go to the shore and get out. Like, and so sometimes there's some other solutions that that require an alternative to swimming, if you will. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I also think we aren't the thing I always think is like, I'm not a shark, like I'm not built to swim while I sleep. Like it's not how we're made.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's not always like the answer for us. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Any that you feel like you we've missed? I feel like every yucky thing made it on the list, but I'm sure there's more. I feel like this would be a good one to revisit, maybe in a bit. Because I feel like they also kind of like let them like re-emerges, you know what I mean? Like we push these things.
SPEAKER_02Like I said, we might be able to do a whole episode on that. If there are some you think we missed, drop them in the comments on our socials, or you can text us from the show notes. We really appreciate you listening to our roundup of a advice that you know sounds helpful, but really isn't. You can share your most hated cliches with us again, and maybe we'll feature them on one of those future episodes.
Share Your Cliches And Wrap
SPEAKER_01Thanks for joining us for Let's Unpack That, brought to you by Ohio Counseling Conversations and the Ohio Counseling Association. If it sparks something for you, share it with a colleague or drop us a line. We'd love to keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening. And until next time, we encourage you to keep unpacking the big stuff one conversation at a time. Let's Unpack That is a podcast intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views, opinions, and references shared by hosts or guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Ohio Counseling Association. Any appearance by a guest does not imply an endorsement of them, their views, or any organizations they may represent. Content discuss should not be interpreted as official positions, recommendations, or endorsements by OCA or its leadership.