Conversation 44 - Gate Opening: Intentional Trauma Informed Care in Counseling

Trauma work gets more effective and more honest when we stop pretending identity is optional. We sit down with Dr. Claire Martin, professional counselor, counselor educator, complex trauma specialist, and incoming AMCD President-elect, to talk about what culturally responsive, liberatory, trauma-informed care looks like in real clinical decisions and real professional leadership.

We start with the personal roots of her work: mentorship, immigration, and early experiences of political turmoil in Haiti that built a lifelong sensitivity to oppression and community harm. From there, we get practical about trauma treatment. Dr. Martin breaks down how she thinks about EMDR therapy for complex trauma, what “readiness” actually means, and how trauma-focused CBT principles like safety, psychoeducation, regulation skills, and client-led storytelling can strengthen counseling across settings.

Then we go where many clinicians hesitate: racial trauma and the myth that it only exists when clients bring it up first. Dr. Martin explains how to look for system-level impact, why trust and connection are central to healing, and how approaches like relational-cultural therapy help clients feel seen while counselors stay culturally humble. We also dig into the pipeline problems that shape access to care: gatekeeping versus “gate opening,” the supervisor shortage, incentives that could make supervision sustainable, and why integrative care, AI in counseling education, and advocacy for mental health funding belong in our shared future.

If this conversation adds language or tools you want to carry into session, subscribe, share it with a colleague, and leave a review so more counselors can find it.

Other Resources:

• https://www.drclairemartin.com/
• Find Dr. Martin on LinkedIn here.

Connect with Us on Any/All Socials at our Link Tree!

OCA Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/ohiocounseling

If you’re a counselor in Ohio and would like to get involved as part of production or as a guest, or know someone who might be interested, please email us at ohiocounselingconversations@gmail.com!

****

Created by the OCA's Media, Public Relations, and Membership (MPRM) Committee & its Podcast Subcommittee

·Hosted by Victoria Frazier

·Pre-Production & Coordination by Marisa Cargill, Lauren Collins-Knight, Victoria Frazier, and Shannon O'Mara

·Editing by Marisa Cargill

·Original music selections by Elijah Satoru Wood

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Today, we are joined by Dr. Claire Martin, and we have been looking forward to this one. Dr. Martin is an assistant professor and clinical coordinator in the Clinical Mental Health Counseling Program at Webster University in St. Louis, a licensed professional counselor specializing in complex trauma, and the newly elected 2026 to 2027 President-elect of the Association for Multicultural Counseling and Development, or AMCD. A proud first-generation Haitian immigrant, her work centers culturally responsive, liberatory, and trauma-informed care, from EMDR and trauma-focused CDT in the counseling room to challenging the systems that shape who gets support and who's able to provide it. We're going to get into racial trauma, cultural humility in the future of the profession, and a whole lot more. Dr. Martin, welcome to Ohio Counseling Conversations. Dr. Martin, thank you so much for joining us. We are so excited to have you today.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Thank you so much, Dori, for this opportunity. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm excited to share my whatever I have to share.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

We are so excited to have you. To start us off, how did you find your way into counseling and what's kept you here?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Oh, great question. Well, I started when I first entered the US. At the age of 19, I might enrolled in college, and my first inspiration was my psychology professor. I had one psychology professor, a black male, who had African-Bayan background and also African-American background. And I truly admired how he showed up in the classroom, how passionate he was in his teaching and how he conducted himself, how he respected students. And I saw myself

Finding Counseling Through Mentorship

SPEAKER_01 2:22

in him. And he was also teaching a lot about social prejudice and the topic that he was teaching, social psychology, also was something that was very inspiring to me. And on a personal level, when I was about to graduate with my undergrad, I went to him for mentorship to get into a PhD program. And he got to know me more. And he made, through that process, he made some major significant impact in my life personally. And in thinking about the ways that he had an impact in my life, I saw the importance of being in the classroom for people like me who would not have that kind of intervention if it was not for someone who is in the classroom. Especially when you think about like immigrants, when they come to the US, they tend to very often have a strong passion to pursue their education. So very often they will be in the classroom. So being in the classroom could be a way to target this population if you're interested in working with immigrants. And then that was something I was passionate about. And I saw how it impacted my life. So I was very inspired by that. So that's one of the one of the one of the experiences that pushed me to that field. And also at the same time, simultaneously, I also was working part-time at a developmental center, working with children with developmental delay, and seeing the services that they were receiving. And many of those children were from underserved communities, and seeing the lack of resources and reflecting on how much of a difference it would have been if they had the resources, if they had the well-resourced environment to support them, that also made me push me towards the focusing lot on social justice within the counseling field. And in addition to that, I received many other experiential opportunities to independent studies when I was in college, when I was in my first master's program, in my second master's program, and in my doctoral program. All of that have shaped my interest in not only going into the counseling field, but also having bringing the social justice lens to it. I remember, for example, in my undergrad, I've taken several independent studies where I was in the field in New York City, and that's where I was at the time. I was in New York City doing work in head start programs, doing work with a political science who was looking at the experiences of immigrant workers, but seeing like all the what is an unfair treatment, injustices, and how policies and practices impacting the well-being of people, all of that have shaped my social justice lens as I was going into the counseling field. And also mentors in my life, I've had many, many mentors that have also encouraged me, saw what I had to bring to the field and pushing me along. So it's it's it's a combination of all of that.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

I'm so glad to hear mentorship come up so early. It's something that's been so formative for me and something that I'm so grateful for in our field that we have such a strong crop of mentors to work with. It's so helpful for new counselors and then also for experienced ones to still have those connections to the people who got them here. What keeps you in this field? It's such hard work, it's it can be draining at times, and sometimes it's unrewarded. What what keeps you around?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

It's the hope. The hope that people can change, communities can change, communities can heal, people can heal, people can overcome adverse adversities. Is that hope? And also knowing that it is my responsibility to create the change that I want to see. So and I do have the passion to create change, have an impact in the development of counselors, the development of programs. So I think so, yeah, taking the responsibility on at my at hand and also knowing

Hope As Fuel For Hard Work

SPEAKER_01 6:50

that it's having hope that people can change, and also being wanting to be a role model for other immigrants, refugees, people with marginalized identities, similar like mine or non-similar like mine, who may be doubting themselves, like can they do it? Can they can they be leaders in the field? So being that role model for individuals who are like doubting themselves and yeah, second-guessing themselves, and also my nephews and nieces, and they're all watching, people are watching more so than you think. So and I'm aware of that. So I've been impacted by people that may not know that they have had an impact on me. So by the same token, it's like I know that I may be impacting others who I may not know about.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yeah, that's such a good point. You've touched a little bit on your experience being an immigrant. Who your work centers cult on culturally responsive, liberatory, and trauma-informed practice? How have your own experiences shaped the counselor and the leader and the mentor that you've become?

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah. So with my cultural heritage being Haitian, first generation Haitian immigrant, growing up in Haiti at a time where there was lots of political trauma, political turmoils, and experiencing that at a very early age, experiencing what oppression looks like and the impact it has on communities. Even

Immigration And Political Trauma Roots

SPEAKER_01 8:21

at the time, I did not have the language to put it into words, but I was able to observe how that impacted the majority of the population who were directly impacted by unfair treatment, injustices, epistemic injustice. And that stayed with me. And that that what it did was it allowed me to develop this sensitivity that I may not have had if I didn't observe those kinds of like if I didn't have those kinds of experiences. So I've developed like this um cultural humility, this cultural empathy, being able to feel and understand and care for others who might be experiencing adversities that adversities that I myself may not have experienced. So that brings that sensitivity to my work. And also with my education, like I was mentioning earlier, with all those experiences that amplify the leadership that I had, maybe the leadership skills that I had within me. And that that has allowed me to see that as a leader I can I can create change. I can I can be I can create platforms for people's voices to be heard, I can create pathways for others to gain opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

So it's Yeah, thank you. I know that you use EMDR as one of your therapeutic modalities. How does that fit alongside your work with complex trauma when you're working with your clients?

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah, a little bit about EMDR. So when I was finishing my master's program and I was about to get my LTC, I was working at a crisis and intervention program. I was running a crisis intervention program at a community college and where I encountered various types of trauma. And it became clear to me that the prevalence of trauma became very clear to me that I needed to have

EMDR For Complex Trauma

SPEAKER_01 10:32

additional tools in my tool, in my counseling toolbox to be able to address what I was seeing. So that's one of the reasons why I decided to seek EMDR training and be certified in it. And it does inform my practice whether it's convention in a conventional way or unconventional way. So what I mean by that is whether I assess where a client needs EMDR, then I will apply the modality in its conventional way. But even if for clients were not, and I see even if for clients were not ready, and I may see like indications of trauma, childhood trauma, and I use some of those elements of EMDR to and incorporate that in my own theory of home approach. So yeah, so it's like using some of those tools to provide the service. And also I use that in my teaching. I teach mostly the skills courses and actually all the classes that I teach, I try to incorporate knowledge about trauma. And if I can incorporate like some elements of EMDR is in terms of like speaking about that, the different tools, different techniques, techniques that students can actually use without necessarily having the training or even giving them that basic knowledge of how trauma is rooted in maybe rooted in childhood or childhood experiences or how experiences are like framed in the mind. And so, yeah, so it helps inform not only my practice but also my teaching.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

With a client, how do you know when they're ready for EMDR?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

I look for the interest. So usually I would bring it up to them. I try to get to know them more, first of all, before I even tap into EMDR. Getting to know them more, then offering this as an opportunity for treatment, then go through the process of explaining it, so providing that hypereducation, then also assessing for stability and readiness. I need to ask myself: do they have other pressing issues that they have or that they're currently going through that they may not be ready for EMDR at the time? So assessing also for coping skills, current coping skills, current support system. So doing like an assessment, and I will be very open with them about that conversation. It's like even when they're they feel that they may be ready, I will have the conversation about like what I see as their readiness in terms of like stability, having a support system, having the coping, coping mechanism, and also then deciding on which trauma to focus on to start with. Sometimes we may start with one particular event, and then we realize that no, it will need to go a little bit further further. We need to go a little bit more dive deeper in previous traumas that may have happened. So it's a collaborative approach.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah. I know that you also use trauma-focused CBT. How does that work alongside the EMPR?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yes. So with the TFCBT, the focus is mostly applied for children from five to 18. So initially I had an interest in working with children, and that's one of the reasons why I pursued that certification. So although I don't use it as often, but some of the principles still apply to my general approach to counseling, which is ensuring that there's safety before assessing before tackling like a process in trauma, assessing like the person's readiness,

Trauma Focused CBT And Safety

SPEAKER_01 14:17

providing psychoeducation, providing them the tools to be able to regulate, being able to allow them the space to retell their stories over and over if they have to, if that's needed. And also if they want to have other significant people in their life to be involved. So that's also an invitation for them to include other individuals in their lives if they want to. And also focusing on the coping strategies and also like speaking, discussing like future development, like if future events, similar events was to happen, how would they handle it? So that so yeah, giving them that the tool to so that they can sustain sustain their wellness.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Where should they start? And what do they get wrong?

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, so I would say where would they start? Educating themselves, educating themselves through there's various information out there, manuscript, tools, professional development. So educating themselves by seeking out those kinds of information. And also being willing to serve diverse people from diverse background while also seeking supervision from counselors who have the expertise in racial trauma. And sometimes seeking supervision might look like I'm seeking supervision from one person, but also seeking mentorship from

How Counselors Miss Racial Trauma

SPEAKER_01 15:50

another person because there is a lack of, there may be a lack of counselors who may not have that expertise in racial trauma. And that means that we may not find a counselor who have that expertise. So that means if you're seeking supervision, you may also find mentorship from another person with that expertise. What they often get wrong is assuming that if clients don't talk about racial issues or their racial experiences, it's not racial trauma. It's that they don't have anything concerning racial trauma. So they need to understand that how to look for racial trauma on a deeper level, meaning like looking at it from the system that has impacted clients, the system that has impacted what shape of the client was sitting in front of you, like what has shaped their belief system, what has shaped their values, what has shaped the experiences that they have had, or the experiences that their parents have had, or how they were parented. So all of that, like seeing the connection between the client's environment and how that's connected to how their environment is connected to social issues that they may have encountered, experienced themselves.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Something I always think about when we're talking about racial trauma is that it affects everyone. And the personal is so political. And so even if you're sitting with someone who's of a similar background to you, their experiences might be different. And especially when you're sitting with someone who has a different racial background from you or any other type of identity, it's so important to think about their experiences and where they're coming from and also who they're coming with and who they're bringing with them into that space. And it sometimes it can be scary for counselors who don't have a lot of specialized training to go to that place. But I think that's a place for cultural humility, and it's so important that we are uncomfortable sometimes for the battlement of our clients. Yeah. Are there healing approaches that you wish more counselors understood or integrated into their work, whether they're traditional or cultural or community-based?

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yes. One that I would say is working with people with diverse background and especially marginalized background, there's this importance of building trust. So, whatever approach that you that you take in, ensuring that you take the time to build trust. And that can look like starting out by broad chain, broad chain, like all the differences or identity differences. It can look like doing some sort of level of self-disclosure if that would make the client more

Trust Building And Relational Healing

SPEAKER_01 18:39

comfortable. Also, think about when we're working with racial trauma or anyone impacted by trauma, very often that leads to isolation. So think about ways that you can encourage clients to engage in activities that encourage community connection or connection with loved ones. So emphasizing, for example, group work or engagement in activities that the client can establish like a level of uh connection with others. In terms of like psychological approaches or therapeutic approaches, I would say relational cultural therapy. It would be an approach that you can, whether it's like you practice it in itself or also incorporate elements of that in your own theory, and which emphasize having this mutual connection with your clients where the client feels seen and you feel seen. Also, there's like a general empathetic exchange between you and the client. It's like having this genuine connection where through this relationship that we have, there's growth not only for the client, but also for myself as the counselor. As a result of having this connection, I am Boeing. We are developing a relationship and fostering that relationship. So using that cultural, relational cultural lens, getting to know the client, looking at their strengths and celebrating their identities, celebrating their achievements. And when I say by that, it's like acknowledge it in the room, making space for it, acknowledging like things that may impact them, that you might think that they may not feel comfortable bringing it up, but you show care by even bringing it up so that you they know that you are thinking about them when you're watching the news, when you are, when you're not when they're not in session with you, you still think about your client. You still think about things that impact your client. So all of that helps with that building trust and developing like this strong therapeutic alliance that will facilitate healing.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Thank you. Yeah. What recommendations would you make for students and newer professionals who want to build that cultural competency and work through a culturally humble lens?

SPEAKER_01 21:03

I would say engaging in self-reflection continuously, regardless of your background, because I've seen students who may be coming from marginalized identity, we who have marginalized identities, and they might think that this is not for me. No, I encourage everyone to engage in that self-reflection and allowing themselves to be uncomfortable because that kind of work will make you uncomfortable. If you doing it

Cultural Humility Skills For Students

SPEAKER_01 21:30

in a very meaningful way, you will find that it's not easy. It takes effort. So you will feel uncomfortable and being open to that uncomfortableness. Don't never stop to educate yourself in whatever level of education you have attained. Uh, continue to engage in education, engage in meaningful exposure, having those experiential opportunities where you engage in the community, whether it's like you're doing research, but also you are in the community, having a presence in the community, not just to do the research, not just to study the population or observe the population, but engage in some meaningful ways. Whether you volunteer during a food drive, whether you it's still on the holiday season, you are participating in some of those events, but having a presence in the community and being among the community will help you develop this cultural humbleness and cultural humility for diverse populations.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

On things that aren't culturally sensitive in their past so that they've gotten it wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

First is to normalize it. Normalize it in the sense that it will happen. Mistakes will happen. So now it's like how do you recover from that? How do you are how do you how do you you undo the harm that was done, if it was done? And had what do you do moving forward to ensure that this doesn't happen again, right? Whether it's like you continue to educate yourself, reflection. So yeah. So first normalizing it so that I don't you remove the shame that may come with it. Because very often when people feel shameful, they may not acknowledge it, they might just keep it hidden instead of bringing it up and let's talk about it. As the supervisor or as the coach, your rule or as the mentor, your role is to remove that shame as you're discussing, like this is the event that happened, and let's talk about it. A little bit of self-disclosure might even help. If you if I, for example, say, yeah, it has happened to me too, and this is how I navigate it. And even that that is like it helps them remove that stigma, that shame that they may be carrying and feeling that discomfort.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Obviously, holding space for client and counselor identity, and I would assume this extends to supervision as well, is really central to building a therapeutic alliance or a working relationship. How do you engage with other counselors or clinicians who don't believe that this space is inherently political?

SPEAKER_01 24:22

When I engage with people like that, I like to emphasize how yes, the personal is political because everything that happens on the political arena impacts resources that I have access to, how my identities are viewed, or how they are celebrated or vilified, and it has an impact on my well-being. So if anything has an impact on my well-being, it does belong in the therapeutic space. And therefore, as a therapist, I do need to make

The Personal Is Political In Therapy

SPEAKER_01 24:53

space for those conversations to happen in this in that space. Our identities are many identities have been politicized, and it comes with it comes with a mental toll on the individual, on the individual, on the populations, whether it in fact it impacts this individual in particular or their communities. So something may not impact me directly, but knowing that my population, the population that I identify with, is going to something like that, it does have an effect on my mental well-being. So it needs to be addressed. I need to have a space to talk about it. And if the counseling room is not the space for that, then what is? So the counseling space needs to be a safe environment for me to bring up anything that has an impact on me.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

I work from a very feminist perspective, which is very political, of course. And when we bring up the idea of naming identities or engaging in this work, sometimes there could be pushback that it politicizes the counseling space or it makes it unsafe for people. How do we navigate that?

SPEAKER_01 26:07

To me, naming identities, it's first of all, identity is something to be celebrated. So naming identities, it's honoring this person's, what this person is. So me tiptoeing around somebody's identity because it has been politicized out on outside the counseling room, if I tiptoe around it, I am sending the message indirectly that there is something to be ashamed of or something wrong with. So even without saying it, if I'm excluding, if I'm going out of my way to exclude naming identities, I am giving sending a message that there is something vilifying about this identity. So I need to be very aware of what am I excluding in the counseling room. So what I would say is if you approach it from a place of celebration, celebrating people's identities and honoring people's identities, it will you will find that you're less you're less scared to bring up issues that impact your clients, your clients based on their identities. So it's coming from a place of honoring, celebrating diversity.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Thank you for that insight. Just even throughout the course of our interview, I can tell that you're very passionate about access to services. And in our some of our pre-interview conversations, you noted concern about the shortage of competent providers. How do we balance client need with the necessity of professional gatekeeping? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

First, I would say with the term gatekeeping, I'm smiling because I've had some conversation with a colleague about the term gatekeeping, and we both thought how the term kind of like really emphasizes this idea of excluding people from the field. And they're thinking, like, oh, you may should be like

Gatekeeping With Support And Standards

SPEAKER_01 28:10

gate opener. How can we be gate openers for people who have the passion and want to do the work? So some of the ways is like assessing their level of passion, their level of readiness to do the work, their level of teachability. Are they teachable? Can they learn? Can we provide with consistent support? Will they be able to provide competent services to clients? Some examples could be some programs have like a remediation process. The remediation process should not be like a punitive process, it should be like a process where the identified student receives the extra support and mentoring and advising that they need so that they can meet the standards to be a qualified counsel. In terms of increasing access, I would say also ensuring that we provide a program that is safe, psychologically safe, in the sense that students feel that they are welcome, respected, honored, that they're celebrated, acknowledging students' achievement and really creating a positive learning environment for students. I think that all goes with helping students who may come in with a disadvantage, but also feeling that support and being able to engage in the learning and meet the requirements.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

You have named the supervisor shortage as a national concern. In what ways can this profession encourage and incentivize independently licensed counselors to earn their supervisory designation and in turn grow a more culturally responsive group of supervisors?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

So, yeah, the supervisor shortage, it is a concern. First, there's a limitation on, well, the process is long, it's lengthy. So once you get your license, depending on which state you're in, you have to wait either two years after you've gained your license to be able to be a to be able, to be eligible to be a supervisor.

Fixing The Supervisor Shortage

SPEAKER_01 30:25

And when you are a supervisor, very often you have your own caseload, then you're taking on supervisees. So that's like additional work. It's very time consuming. It's not a lucrative, a lucrative gig, I would say. And especially if you're very mindful of supervisees who may not have more money to even afford supervision. So very often it's like you you're doing sliding scale, you just sliding scales for supervisees. And there's also a limit on how many supervisees a supervisor can have in some states. So that all that already has a limit of how many supervisors are to provide supervision. So ways to incentivize, incentivize independently licensed counselors to seek supervision would be providing support, whether it's in the sense of monetary incentive, whether it's like adjusting their salary to the cost of living or getting extra pay, some time off, or rising their benefits, having a lower caseload, thinking about like what kind of self-care graduate can we implement for supervisors, what kind of training program can we provide for supervisors so that they don't feel so that they can't feel supported, so that they can feel like they have the tools to support their supervisors. Maybe like even a mentorship program for supervisors where they can find support when they need to. We've missed they're having to build a supervision. Peer mentorship program would be great too. And since it could be like a loan forgiveness, yeah, so definitely some these are some ideas.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Yeah, thank you. What makes stepping into a supervisory role attractive and sustainable in the long term?

SPEAKER_01 32:22

What makes it attractive? It's the impact you have in only in the field, but also in the individuals that you are supervising, seeing their growth and how they move on and also start to impact others. So sometimes it's like having a supervisor or supervisee who went on and become a supervisor themselves, and seeing them doing the work in the field. So that's very rewarding. What would make it sustainable would be it there's a balance between how much you give in and also making time for yourself so that you don't burn out. So the idea is you're still around to do it, to do the work. And what would make it sustainable would be being very mindful about how it's impacting your physical, your mental well-being so that you prevent burnout, compassion fatigue. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Once counselors and other clinicians step into the role of supervisor, how do we encourage them to be trauma-informed in their relation with supervisees?

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yeah. I would encourage working on the relationship between supervisor and supervisees. You can think of it, think of it as almost like a therapeutic relationship where there needs to be trust. For my supervisees to trust me, I need to make the time to get to know this super to get to know the supervisee, understand their communication style, understand what has shaped they

Trauma Informed Supervision Relationships

SPEAKER_01 34:07

are and what's bringing them to the field. So even understanding like what would be their triggers. Even so it's a very fine line between therapy and doing supervision. So you have to understand that line so that you don't cross it also. But I'm seeing that I do need to know what are my supervisees' triggers, and how would I know that they are being triggered by their clients and they're not taking the client to the level that they should because they are triggered. So there needs to be that level of awareness about your supervisees. Taking the time to build that relationship, to build trust, to address any kind of rupture that may happen in the relationship, and emphasizing self-care, understanding your supervise's needs, and meeting them at their level. So you cannot be a cookie counter approach to all supervision. So it needs to be individualized. Yeah. And not only of having an interest in their professional development, but even their personal development. So helping them set goals professionally and personally.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Also glad counselor retention in nonprofits and low reimbursement rates as presenting issues for our field. What gives you hope here and also what needs to change?

SPEAKER_01 35:27

What gives me hope is that I am seeing more and more philanthropic organizations stepping up to address the mental health crisis in the community, whether it's like a youth level or adult, but there is a lot more of those organizations having those conversations willing to pour in the resources to help promote mental health well-being

Funding And Retention Realities

SPEAKER_01 35:54

mental well-being. So that gives me hope. I think what needs to be done on a broader scale is there needs to be some changes in terms of legislators, in terms of what percentage of money is allocated to mental wellness. So that could be like the that's one thing I think that's needed in terms of funding.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

I think funding is so limited, and the way that we divide it up always mystifies me. And I guess I'll leave it at that. Yeah. A lot of your early work evaluated programs serving immigrant and refugee families, and you care a lot about the globalization of mental health. What do counselors based in the US miss when they view mental health only through a domestic lens?

SPEAKER_01 36:45

I think what they miss very often is that they're looking at mental health from a Western perspective and not understanding that in other parts of the world, wellness can be the can look and perceive differently. So it can be on a holistic level, it could be on a community level, and

Global Mental Health Beyond A Western Lens

SPEAKER_01 37:09

understanding that every group that you encounter, wellness might look different. So really it's about having this humility about I may not know how wellness looks like in this particular culture. And let me allow myself the time to observe what it looks like or to learn from them what wellness is like before I bring in my agenda of what I think wellness should look like, and impose that on them. So that's one thing I think that needs to happen in terms of not imposing your agenda on others. And understanding also that what we what the Western society thinks as knowledgeable or important figures may not be that in different cultures. So people who is knowledgeable in different cultures might be different. It might be like though in this particular family, in this particular culture, the elders in the family is the one who is knowledgeable about how things should be done in the family, right? What's important for the family. So understanding that, like what's important for a cult for you may be different for what's important for your clients based on their culture. Yeah, and understanding the interconnect connectedness of people in different cultures and how sometimes you may be working with a client that may not be bringing up issues that pertain to them, but some things that are impacting their family members are strongly have an impact on them. And they may not know that it's they can bring it to the counseling room because you're looking at things from an individual perspective, you're only asking about what's impacting them, what goals that they have for themselves, like individualized goals versus what's coming up for them, what's been on their mind lately? So being intentional about like having those kind of broad conversations so that you know they can come up, as opposed to being very restrictive in the ways that you are addressing your clients' needs.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

What can counselors who have been not as exposed or haven't learned about health systems outside of the US, what can we learn from the global approach to mental health?

SPEAKER_01 39:42

What can they learn from the global? What they can learn is that wellness can look different. Wellness can include individuals that you're the individuals that you're not working with, it can be family, extended family members, it can be community members, it can be it can include the spiritual component to it. Truly, it's like what what gives your clients vitality and trying to understand what brings them strength, what gives them vitality, what brings them this zest for life, and in what ways can it be addressed and not bringing your own perspective, your yeah, your own yeah, your own perspective, and assuming that that's what it should be.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Looking across your full term as president-elect, president, and past president, what's your vision for AMCB?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

My vision it's to continue to dismantle oppression, systems of oppression, whether it's through education, visibility, amplifying the voices of clinicians, educators, counselor in trainings, the youth, their elderlies, and really creating platforms for people to connect, and also addressing diversity at every

AMCD Vision For Visibility And Justice

SPEAKER_01 41:15

level, addressing diversity and social justice and trauma-informed practices at all levels, not only in the counseling room, but also in the teaching, in the research, in the services that we provide. So really emphasize that for all counselors to see like their roles in, for all individuals to see their role in bringing those lenses in whatever that they do, whether it's in service, whether it's in the education or supervision or teaching.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

What do you want to what's the first thing you want to move on once you step into this role?

SPEAKER_01 41:57

On the general term, I would say visibility is one. Visibility in terms of promoting diversity from a strength base and engaging our members and also non non-members.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

How can counselors outside of AMCD support your vision?

SPEAKER_01 42:20

By being committed to do the work themselves, whether they're not AMCD members, knowing that systems of oppression impact us all, even it feels like okay, it doesn't impact my population, it impacts society. And knowing that it is a disservice not to diving into this work and in in all for being and wanting to really dismantle oppression and and promoting justice, fairness, really to look at your examining like your own ways that you are contributing to it, whether it's like willingly or unwillingly, or examining like your unconscious ways of participating in it. Whether it's like you're staying silent, it's like, what does that mean about me as this individual was trying to create change, but yes, I'm being silent and I'm I'm not contributing to this the dismantling of that system that's hurting others. So it's really having a relationship with yourself and examining like in what ways am I contributing or in what ways am I making creating change?

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Yeah, there's no way to live outside of it. Lastly, we ask this question on every episode. The name of our podcast is Ohio Counseling Conversations. What important conversations do you think counseling personals should be having with each other andor their clients in our state? And I know you're not based in Ohio, so I guess to a greater extent, our nation.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

What comes to mind is we need to have conversations about how do we engage in integrative care. We know that it is beneficial for clients outcome, but it's not incorporated in our in the education, in the teaching, and we don't know what other fields are doing.

Integrative Care AI And Advocacy

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Very often we don't. So this idea of let's work from an integrative approach, when it comes to that field experience at the field experience level, then it's like there was no preceding education about it. So I think that's a conversation to have in terms of like if that's something that's beneficial, like do we need to have that conversation early on in terms of like how do we look at counseling from an integrated perspective in working together with others? I always tell people it's like counseling is like sometimes people say, Well, counseling is not in the it's not in this field. Like, what are you doing work with the sciences? It's everywhere. Mental well-being is everywhere. So we need to see substance in ourselves in every element. So having a relationship with every other field and having those conversations about well-being in general. Yeah. I think there needs to be more conversation about that. I'm I hope that I was clear on that. And obviously, there's needs to be more conversation about AI and the incorporation of AI in counseling, or even in education of counselors, and also advocating for funding on the legislative level. So there needs to be more conversations about how do we engage counselor trainees, people on the community level, clinicians in that kind of advocacy work.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Thank you, Dr. Martin, so much for joining us today and sharing all of your insights and your experiences. We're so appreciative. Where can listeners find you and follow your work? Yes, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

First, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. So, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. So if you look up my name, I'm on LinkedIn. I post there very often on Instagram. And I also have my own website, which is Dr. Claire Martin. Dr. Claire Martin.com.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Thank you so much once again for being here and for your honesty and empathy that you brought to this conversation. You can find Dr. Martin's website and her

Where To Follow Dr. Martin

SPEAKER_00 46:42

work linked in the show notes if you'd like to go deeper. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.